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  1. #1
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    He defended Jimmy in a way that said I AM CERTAIN FOR NO REASON IN PARTICULAR AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.
    That sounds like the kind of play a mafioso wouldn't make because it looks very suspicious and results in his own death if the other player flips guilty, which in this game is rather likely. So it doesn't even matter if he was not on the same team, he'd still end up looking guilty, and that's too large a risk for a scumbag to take.

    A townie, on the other hand, generally doesn't care what the risks are in accusing/defending people, and that leads to bad plays which hang them.

    Saw this coming a mile away. Anyone who gave it any thought did too.
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  2. #2
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Put it to you like this-

    I'm a scumbag and my options are to do one of the following four actions:

    1) Accuse someone
    2) Defend someone
    3) Lurk and say nothing
    4) Be active but not make any strong accusations

    Which has the highest likelihood of causing me grief?

    If I defend someone, and I'm successful, then that is a person I may have to murder because I can't really argue for their death anymore. Further, people will wonder why I am defending someone when I have no way of knowing their innocence unless I'm a power role. Which will lead to murders or votes in my direction.

    If I defend someone and I'm unsuccessful and they flip scum, I die.

    If I defend someone I am acting unusually. My action will stand out whereas the rest of the players are behaving in a similar way (accusing someone) therefore it's unlikely that their single accusation will draw attention. However, if I'm the only one defending someone and they flip scum, that gains me immediate and deadly attention and there's no way to get out of it.

    If I accuse someone and they're guilty I look good.
    If I accuse someone and they're not guilty, I'm one of many, many people to do so.

    If I lurk, and there are other lurkers, and it's not unusual for me, then generally I only die from random murders or policy lynches of lurkers.

    If I am active but make no strong moves one way or the other, and this is not unusual for me, then generally I don't die except from totally random wagons.

    Woad took the single most risky and lowest-profitable action in an early game situation that a mafioso can make. It's a terrible bet, wins nothing even if he were right, and has a likely chance of blowing up in his face. Such moves are extremely uncommon from most mafiosi, even the supposedly very risky ones like myself.
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  3. #3
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Woad took the single most risky and lowest-profitable action in an early game situation that a mafioso can make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
    woad&fangs - Space Cadet - He couldn't change time, but time has changed him
    Huh? *scratches head*

    Why is Pizza still making a case on W&F after the reveal? XD

    Edit: nvm lol argument by assumption :P
    Last edited by Arjos; 07-10-2012 at 12:59.

  4. #4
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    Huh? *scratches head*

    Why is Pizza still making a case on W&F after the reveal? XD
    I wasn't. Reading for context clues may help with the wall o words.
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  5. #5
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Where are your scum hiding?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    woad&fangs - 3 (Visorslash, Double A, BSmith)

    edse - 2 (Jarema, The King)

    Visorslash - 1 (Montmorency)
    Jarema - 1 (edse)
    Montmorency - 1 (woad&fangs)
    dcmort93 - 1 (atheotes)
    wideyedwanderer - 1 (thefluffyone93)
    Double A - 1 (SalmonSoil)

    Abstaining - Xehh II, Csargo, Choxorn, dcmort93

    Not Present - 5 (robbiecon [2ND], Greyblades [2ND], wideyedwanderer [2nd], Major Robert Dump, classical_hero)

    1) Voting for Woad
    2) Voting for Edse
    3) Nominating someone else (voting someone alone)
    4) Abstaining
    5) Not present



    The mafiosi are hiding in one of these places, because that is the entirety of the player roster.

    What is the likelihood that they are voting for Woad?

    Risk factor: Being one of three voters for a townie, and lead candidate, increases suspicion to oneself, particularly on such narrow margins of winning the lynch.
    Gain factor: One dead townie.
    Case: All too easy, Woad defended a scumbag.

    The case means it's going to be easy enough for the lynch to succeed, but the lack of large wagon means the blame factor for the lynch is going to be divided more generously in your direction. As such, the risk/gain factor is a bit high. Could there be one here? Maybe, but several? Doubtful. At least two voting for Woad are townie. Double A remains the highest risk factor for being scum IMO of these three.

    I wouldn't pressure any of these three candidates right now.


    Voting for Edse?

    Risk factor: Not appreciably different from voting for a one-vote candidate. Backlash here is unlikely to be different either.
    Gain factor: Ensuring that a fellow mafioso does not die from a single vote placed on them, followed by one lucky vote.
    Case: Case?

    Voting for Edse makes sense as a defensive maneuver, with the second voter being slightly more likely to be scummy than the first, as it joins an existing candidate to outvote all the one-shot candidates, forcing two additional votes to destroy a voted scumbag instead of just one. However, this assumes that the scumbags have any reason to act defensively. With only a single vote on the candidates other than woad, it's less likely that they'd make such a move with that purpose in mind.

    If a person who voted for Edse survives to the endgame, they could use another look. Until then, they can be safely placed on the backburner. So I wouldn't pressure the Edse voters right now.


    Voting for someone nobody else voted for?

    Risk: Likely raises suspicion on you from the person you voted for. Otherwise, not much. Being accusatory but not causing a death allows you to blend in. There are also several people doing the same thing, voting but not in deadly fashion.
    Gain: Look like you're scum-hunting and being active and participatory, thus avoiding any anti-lurker campaigns, without real risk.
    Case: Don't really need to make one.

    Six people fit this category and they do so without really distinguishing themselves radically from one another. Of note- Wideyedwanderer failed to vote once again, meaning he's approaching WOG status. As such, he's likely to be wogged, which means Fluffy's vote is more or less wasted. Not that unexpected. Edse voted for Jarema, Jarema voted for Edse. Monty voted for Visorslash, Visorslash voted for Woad, Woad voted for Monty and was innocent. Atheotes voted for dcmort, and dcmort abstained, making him a passive target. SalmonSoil voted for Double A, and Double A voted for Woad.

    Specific risk factor: No risk involved for those voting for Wideyedwanderer or dcmort.
    Folks voting for people who are in turn voting for other active players are creating voting footprints that can be analyzed by the endgame. Creates more of a risk but not one that is particularly prohibitive for most players.

    These people are doing behaviors which create limited information but is also low risk in the long term. Pressure here is still a good idea because odds are very good one of these is scum.


    Abstaining:
    Xehh II, Csargo, Choxorn, dcmort93

    Not unusual for Csargo or Xehh or dcmort. But they also know that they can get away with it. This indicates activity and thus interest in the game without forming a voting pattern which can be analyzed, there are also several others doing so which further reduces the risk of being accused for that reason.

    As such, you are gaining the least amount of information from this group, they are behaving in a manner which is least productive for the town, and they are benefiting from the least risky action a scumbag can currently take.

    I would direct your lynching efforts here. The usual abstainers may well be townie, but they may also be mafia, and you won't be able to tell which. these are also folks who will abstain as mafia because they know they can get away with it. Remove the cover for scums to hide in.


    Not Present:

    Meaning closer to being wogged. Wogging is a free lynch, and will apply to scumbags or townies alike if it keeps up. As such, you do not need to pressure the folks who have failed to vote twice.

    The folks who failed to be present once are like abstainers, except this one does not have the balls to actually be on record as abstaining, hoping people will not notice that they're not participating, whereas an abstainer is acknowledging that they aren't pressuring anyone. As such, an eye is warranted on Major Robert Dump and Classical_Hero.


    If I were to take a wild guess as to where the scumbags are hiding, it's likely spread between your abstainers and your one-vote accusers. Why? Because it becomes much harder to narrow it down further than that, and creates two generic categories for them to hide in which are both low-risk.

    For informational purposes, you should punish the abstainers/non voters first, so that you're left with active and aggressive townies for the endgame which can mop up the one-vote accusers. You will have a better voting record to analyze that way.


    Long story short: I'd advocate to accuse a nonvoter now, accuse a one-voter later.

    More information would be revealed if no proven townie directed the lynching, because then it's easier to shift blame, so I won't specify who I think needs to die first.

    Which of these folks would you want to lynch first?

    • Xehh II
    • Csargo
    • Choxorn
    • dcmort93
    • Major Robert Dump
    • classical_hero



    Just curious. And of this list:

    • Montmorency
    • edse
    • atheotes
    • thefluffyone93
    • SalmonSoil


    Who would you lynch first?
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Not a single one.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  7. #7
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Not a single one.
    Odd, considering your vote for Edse. Then again, I've lost all hope of any of your responses ever making sense.
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  8. #8
    winston 4 champs Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]



    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Where are your scum hiding?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    1) Voting for Woad
    2) Voting for Edse
    3) Nominating someone else (voting someone alone)
    4) Abstaining
    5) Not present



    The mafiosi are hiding in one of these places, because that is the entirety of the player roster.

    What is the likelihood that they are voting for Woad?

    Risk factor: Being one of three voters for a townie, and lead candidate, increases suspicion to oneself, particularly on such narrow margins of winning the lynch.
    Gain factor: One dead townie.
    Case: All too easy, Woad defended a scumbag.

    The case means it's going to be easy enough for the lynch to succeed, but the lack of large wagon means the blame factor for the lynch is going to be divided more generously in your direction. As such, the risk/gain factor is a bit high. Could there be one here? Maybe, but several? Doubtful. At least two voting for Woad are townie. Double A remains the highest risk factor for being scum IMO of these three.

    I wouldn't pressure any of these three candidates right now.


    Voting for Edse?

    Risk factor: Not appreciably different from voting for a one-vote candidate. Backlash here is unlikely to be different either.
    Gain factor: Ensuring that a fellow mafioso does not die from a single vote placed on them, followed by one lucky vote.
    Case: Case?

    Voting for Edse makes sense as a defensive maneuver, with the second voter being slightly more likely to be scummy than the first, as it joins an existing candidate to outvote all the one-shot candidates, forcing two additional votes to destroy a voted scumbag instead of just one. However, this assumes that the scumbags have any reason to act defensively. With only a single vote on the candidates other than woad, it's less likely that they'd make such a move with that purpose in mind.

    If a person who voted for Edse survives to the endgame, they could use another look. Until then, they can be safely placed on the backburner. So I wouldn't pressure the Edse voters right now.


    Voting for someone nobody else voted for?

    Risk: Likely raises suspicion on you from the person you voted for. Otherwise, not much. Being accusatory but not causing a death allows you to blend in. There are also several people doing the same thing, voting but not in deadly fashion.
    Gain: Look like you're scum-hunting and being active and participatory, thus avoiding any anti-lurker campaigns, without real risk.
    Case: Don't really need to make one.

    Six people fit this category and they do so without really distinguishing themselves radically from one another. Of note- Wideyedwanderer failed to vote once again, meaning he's approaching WOG status. As such, he's likely to be wogged, which means Fluffy's vote is more or less wasted. Not that unexpected. Edse voted for Jarema, Jarema voted for Edse. Monty voted for Visorslash, Visorslash voted for Woad, Woad voted for Monty and was innocent. Atheotes voted for dcmort, and dcmort abstained, making him a passive target. SalmonSoil voted for Double A, and Double A voted for Woad.

    Specific risk factor: No risk involved for those voting for Wideyedwanderer or dcmort.
    Folks voting for people who are in turn voting for other active players are creating voting footprints that can be analyzed by the endgame. Creates more of a risk but not one that is particularly prohibitive for most players.

    These people are doing behaviors which create limited information but is also low risk in the long term. Pressure here is still a good idea because odds are very good one of these is scum.


    Abstaining:
    Xehh II, Csargo, Choxorn, dcmort93

    Not unusual for Csargo or Xehh or dcmort. But they also know that they can get away with it. This indicates activity and thus interest in the game without forming a voting pattern which can be analyzed, there are also several others doing so which further reduces the risk of being accused for that reason.

    As such, you are gaining the least amount of information from this group, they are behaving in a manner which is least productive for the town, and they are benefiting from the least risky action a scumbag can currently take.

    I would direct your lynching efforts here. The usual abstainers may well be townie, but they may also be mafia, and you won't be able to tell which. these are also folks who will abstain as mafia because they know they can get away with it. Remove the cover for scums to hide in.


    Not Present:

    Meaning closer to being wogged. Wogging is a free lynch, and will apply to scumbags or townies alike if it keeps up. As such, you do not need to pressure the folks who have failed to vote twice.

    The folks who failed to be present once are like abstainers, except this one does not have the balls to actually be on record as abstaining, hoping people will not notice that they're not participating, whereas an abstainer is acknowledging that they aren't pressuring anyone. As such, an eye is warranted on Major Robert Dump and Classical_Hero.


    If I were to take a wild guess as to where the scumbags are hiding, it's likely spread between your abstainers and your one-vote accusers. Why? Because it becomes much harder to narrow it down further than that, and creates two generic categories for them to hide in which are both low-risk.

    For informational purposes, you should punish the abstainers/non voters first, so that you're left with active and aggressive townies for the endgame which can mop up the one-vote accusers. You will have a better voting record to analyze that way.


    Long story short: I'd advocate to accuse a nonvoter now, accuse a one-voter later.

    More information would be revealed if no proven townie directed the lynching, because then it's easier to shift blame, so I won't specify who I think needs to die first.

    Which of these folks would you want to lynch first?

    • Xehh II
    • Csargo
    • Choxorn
    • dcmort93
    • Major Robert Dump
    • classical_hero



    Just curious. And of this list:

    • Montmorency
    • edse
    • atheotes
    • thefluffyone93
    • SalmonSoil


    Who would you lynch first?

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  9. #9
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    In general your scumbags are doing one of the following two things-

    1) Doing a category of action which matches the majority, or a group. [The low-risk strategy]

    This can mean joining a bandwagon, though generally does not mean that they only bandwagon as some find that scummy and it earns you votes, however some mafiosi do risk it and always wagon. Bandwagoning allows you to lynch a townie, reduce the risk of getting lynched or your partner lynched since it stretches the lead of the lead candidate, and also allows you to share the blame of a mislynch with several other people, reducing the risk to yourself of backlash.

    This can mean accusing someone who is not the lead candidate, particularly if there are a lot of other people doing a similar action (no large lead wagon) this is most effective when not changing who is in the lead in a given round, which tends to attract attention. This is also effective toward the middle/end of the round when your accusation is unlikely to generate traction, meaning you could follow up the next round and essentially accuse one person over two rounds for the risk of a single accusation, which is a good way to minimize your voting footprint and reduce the number of people who take note of you due to false accusations.

    If there are several folks not voting, you can get away with being one of them. That minimizes your voting footprint, and is especially effective if you're already known for doing it.


    2) Doing something risky but "proves" your townie-ness to the group. In other words, reducing your risk of being lynched if your gambit is successful. [The gamble]

    Example: Jolt voting himself and sounding frustrated, to sound more genuinely townie.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-10-2012 at 13:04.
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  10. #10
    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    2) Doing something risky but "proves" your townie-ness to the group. In other words, reducing your risk of being lynched if your gambit is successful. [The gamble]

    Example: Jolt voting himself and sounding frustrated, to sound more genuinely townie.
    To be honest, I was genuinely frustrated at being voted for and lynched for no reason. :P
    BLARGH!

  11. #11
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    To be honest, I was genuinely frustrated at being voted for and lynched for no reason. :P
    The self-vote was a tactic. You don't actually want to be lynched and outed as mafia. Being frustrated, yeah, but you chose to show it and use it as a sympathy gamble. The best kind of acting contains your own actual feelings.
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  12. #12
    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    The self-vote was a tactic. You don't actually want to be lynched and outed as mafia. Being frustrated, yeah, but you chose to show it and use it as a sympathy gamble. The best kind of acting contains your own actual feelings.
    Of course. That's the thing. If I was really a townie, I don't think I would have done anything differently.
    BLARGH!

  13. #13
    POOTIS Member thefluffyone93's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    AARGH, YE SCALLYWAGS!

    PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR THE RELENTLESS PILLAGING AND LOOTING ABOUT TO BEFALL YE!
    AND THEN WHEN I'M ALL DONE AND YER ALL TIED UP, YE CAPTAIN WILL WALK
    THE SPACE PLANK INTO THE MAW OF THE LEGENDARY SPACE KRAKEN!

    AND FOR ALL YOU COWARDLY NINJAS THAT BE HIDING IN THE SHADOWS, BEWARE!
    I HAVE GUNS!


    Yeah, I'm totally not a pirate.
    I'm actually a laser Dinosaur that caused the
    extinction of the Martians after they came in peace and
    started ripping on their v-neck guitars.

    Yep, totally.

    Discuss.
    "They're just overloaded from the spamgasm."-Askthepizzaguy
    "... Either your as destructive as the most depraved 4 channer or so devious that you can cause the most trouble while acting utterly oblivious as to make us think your too dumb to be doing this intentionally... and the scary thing is I cant help but think the latter."-Greyblades
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  14. #14
    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Fluffy for 2012

  15. #15
    still making Bowser jokes Member Roach Kill Champion, Donkey Rocket Champion Double A's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    That sounds like the kind of play a mafioso wouldn't make because it looks very suspicious and results in his own death if the other player flips guilty, which in this game is rather likely. So it doesn't even matter if he was not on the same team, he'd still end up looking guilty, and that's too large a risk for a scumbag to take.

    A townie, on the other hand, generally doesn't care what the risks are in accusing/defending people, and that leads to bad plays which hang them.

    Saw this coming a mile away. Anyone who gave it any thought did too.
    When was the last time woad played? You make it sound like he would be super attentive as mafia, but I haven't seen him around for awhile and figured his skills would have gotten rusty.

  16. #16
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Double A View Post
    When was the last time woad played? You make it sound like he would be super attentive as mafia, but I haven't seen him around for awhile and figured his skills would have gotten rusty.
    This may not be the "last" time woad played, but I remember he's taken several long breaks, and one of the last things I remember him doing was kicking my cheese-encrusted ass all over the Trouble In Waiting game in a flawless game as mafia, with me screaming my head off to everyone else that he and his partner were mafia, and only other dead townies listening to me, and even then only after much protesting.

    Woad&fangs are serious business.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-10-2012 at 15:20.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member Jarema's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    @ ATPG, I think that you are generaly right about concentrating lynch on abstainers/no voters (the ones who avoid woging)
    I believe that it is good because it: does not allow mafia to hide easily (as you mentioned), but also encourages more active play from townies. Which is, again, good for two reasons. First, it generates material for later analyses (and therefore benefits town). Second, it makes game more interesting. I, for one, find it more interesting both as mafia and as a town to do something in a game thread, at the very least voting every day. And I also believe it makes game more interesting for others.

  18. #18
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    The game would be boring if everyone abstained, and the game would be boring if we policy lynched abstainers right off the bat every game. I try to be less predictable and give them a break every other game or so, but it's definitely the kind of behavior mafia like to employ when possible. Certain players anyway.

    That said, I'm only advocating going after them first because I can't analyze their behavior by endgame whereas the others will have generated some pattern.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  19. #19
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Also, could someone talk to me who isn't scum?
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  20. #20
    Italian stallion Member edse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    Also, could someone talk to me who isn't scum?
    Hi.

  21. #21
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pirate Ninja Robot Zombie Mafia IN SPACE [IN PLAY]

    Quote Originally Posted by edse View Post
    Hi.
    Lynch edse.
    #Winstontoostrong
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