This is why I think Zionism in its current form is so dangerous

[Hax]

I think the influence and position of the Charedim is only a part of the problem. What makes matters worse is the fact that Israeli wages cannot keep up with the costs of living in Israel, and if the rate with which the wages are growing remains stable, in a couple of years the economy will probably start to suffer badly. Furthermore, and this is where the Orthodox Jewish community ties into it all, is not only the fact that they have the tendency to breed like rabbits (the average Charedi family consists of roughly ten children) is that Charedi schools are free, which has led to non-Orthodox Jews into putting their children on Charedi schools, which will increase their numbers even more.

Most of the people I met in Israel seemed to really dislike the Charedim. One shop-owner described them as maffia-esque; apparently if you open your shop on the Sabbath, they'll come and throw in the windows with bricks the following day.

[Hooahguy]

Most of the people I met in Israel seemed to really dislike the Charedim. One shop-owner described them as maffia-esque; apparently if you open your shop on the Sabbath, they'll come and throw in the windows with bricks the following day.

Yup, thats pretty much everywhere except Tel Aviv and maybe a few other very secular places, but Tel Aviv seems to be a bastion of sanity.

Where I stayed for 7 months (a subdivision of Bet Shemesh), the park was not allowed a playground because they were afraid that girls would play on it and be immodest. Thats on top of making them wear dark and heavy long sleeve shirts and long skirts in an area that often gets to over 35 degrees Celsius for most of the year.
And did I mention that most homes in this area dont have air conditioning?

Im not sure whats worse: the fact that they are so terrified of seven year old girls playing on a jungle gym or the fact that obviously a number of these Charedim are aroused by it.

But yeah, everyone who isnt Charedi hates the Charedim.

[Shokifer]

Seems like a lot of the governments in the middle east have been full of very silly people.

[Greyblades]

Alot of governments everywhere have been full of very silly people.

[Shokifer]

I suppose so. That's democracy for ya. This time you get to CHOOSE your dictator!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yup, thats pretty much everywhere except Tel Aviv and maybe a few other very secular places, but Tel Aviv seems to be a bastion of sanity.

Where I stayed for 7 months (a subdivision of Bet Shemesh), the park was not allowed a playground because they were afraid that girls would play on it and be immodest. Thats on top of making them wear dark and heavy long sleeve shirts and long skirts in an area that often gets to over 35 degrees Celsius for most of the year.
And did I mention that most homes in this area dont have air conditioning?

Im not sure whats worse: the fact that they are so terrified of seven year old girls playing on a jungle gym or the fact that obviously a number of these Charedim are aroused by it.

But yeah, everyone who isnt Charedi hates the Charedim.

Charedim are like any priestly cast in a theocracy (Israel is an ethno-theocracy, I'm afraid), they have to have oppressive rules people break to justify their existence.

A priest is spiritual healer, when you have a surplus of priests they become quacks who diagnose spurious ailments constantly and aggressively so that they can "cure" them.

This is the problem in Israel with the Charedim - but it is only part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is that Israel should never have been created, as it displaced the Arabs already living there. A point to be recognised is that many anti-Semites supported an Israeli State as a way of getting Jews out of Europe. The long-term viability of such a State, and the fate of any Israeli or Arab people, were not issues they were concerned with.

Of course, like all other peoples throughout history, they underestimated the strength of the Jewish identity.

Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.

[Kralizec]

Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.

There are still some Samaritans around. Almost extinct, though.

[gaelic cowboy]

Modern day Jews are the only people in the Near East or Europe who still worship the same ancestral God they did 2,500-3,000 years ago.

Well using your own logic on permanance of belief I am sure Zoroastrians might have something to say about it.

Also don't modern day Jews actually worship a different God to the Gods the Jews worshipped 3000 yrs ago, or at least they have forgotten that there praying to a God of war from a polytheistic faith.

[Beskar]

Also Hindu faith is the oldest organised religion, dating 7000 years, I believe.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There are still some Samaritans around. Almost extinct, though.

Samaritans are heretical Jews, in the literal sense, so they are newer

Well using your own logic on permanance of belief I am sure Zoroastrians might have something to say about it.Also don't modern day Jews actually worship a different God to the Gods the Jews worshipped 3000 yrs ago, or at least they have forgotten that there praying to a God of war from a polytheistic faith.

Ah - but Zoroastrianism is no longer intrinsically linked to Persian identity and hasn't been for a millennium, and there's some debate about the exact place of Zoroastor the Prophet in Persian identity even before the coming of Islam.Dates are also somewhat equivocal, it's hard to say whether worship of El-Yahweh predates the exile or not. Which leads me into your final point, quite by accident, the concept of "Polytheism" is very slippery, when you ask "Are Jews Polytheistic before Babylon" you are asking an anachronistic question - what we do no is that the Jews only ever acknowledged one God as Supreme - El. El's rule was undisputed, and it then becomes a very difficult question as to whether you consider the beings under Him "Gods" or "Angels".Never a Polytheistic "War God" though - El means "The Lord", i.e. THE Lord, of everything.

Also Hindu faith is the oldest organised religion, dating 7000 years, I believe.

The earliest texts date back that far - but I am unclear if the theology is even similar. There is an argument in Hinduism over whether it is a Polytheistic or Monotheistic faith. Monotheism is being rejected as "Westernisation" in some quarters.In any case - I said "Europe and the Near East", I deliberately excluded India for just the reason that I know almost nothing about it.

[Moros]

Yahweh as a god existed before the Persian and Babylonic times, but at this point he wasn't a monotheïstic god. On the contrary he even is evidenced to have a wife (can't remember the name at the moment) at this time. The religion kept very much changing afterwards still and it isn't untill the late ancient age/early medieval age we get a somewhat consistent religion that is comparable with the current one.

I have a great article on that laying around at college, but I'm at home now so can't look up. But I can some time this week, if you want some more information on the development of Jewish religion and identity. Though that may be off-topic.

Edit: Yahwah's wife apparantly was called Asherah (thank you google).

[lars573]

The earliest texts date back that far - but I am unclear if the theology is even similar. There is an argument in Hinduism over whether it is a Polytheistic or Monotheistic faith. Monotheism is being rejected as "Westernisation" in some quarters.In any case - I said "Europe and the Near East", I deliberately excluded India for just the reason that I know almost nothing about it.

Hindu theology is fluid, changing over the eons. And you also get the usual divergent beliefs between god cults. When someone posted some audio of Buddhist lectures a while ago the lecturer described Indian religion as Orthopraxy rather than Orthodoxy. That is ritual is far more important than theological belief.