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Thread: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

  1. #541

    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    It's hard to say when tradition becomes a joke and should be scrapped.
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 08-28-2012 at 07:05.


  2. #542
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Maybe. I think the problem goes a lot deeper. I have a hypothesis that racism, bigotry, partisan politics, and all the ills that can befall our sort of society which stem from an irrationally uncompromising and antagonistic viewpoint are the product of biology, to a larger degree than we can correct for. For over a million years it has behooved groups of humans to shun things that are different or confusing--this might seem like a bit of a truism, but when put in the greater context of a society that is on the threshold of an information revolution (or whatever you want to call it) it makes a lot of sense.

    And perhaps that biological tendancy to group up into combative factions when times get confusing or hard is something we will never be able to correct for? If that's the case, our civilization--like all the ones before and (ostensibly) after--is surely doomed to fall apart.
    I think those tendencies are possible to correct. Most of us on this board are able to accept each other's viewpoints and have rational, respectful debate. We're a little more intellectually minded than your average citizen, but I don't think we're special.

    Call me naive but I think there are politicians out there that believe what they say and are willing to compromise and make sacrifices. But of course there are also the politicians that are greedy, corrupt and motivated by self interest. I believe that governments will always be a mix of both. So, is it possible to have more "good" politicians than "bad" ones? I think so. Greed, self-interest, narrow mindedness and bigotry may be the products of biology, but then so are altruism, the ability to think critically, etc.

    In a democracy, people aren't born politicians, they make the choice to become politicians later on in life. Our elected leaders went to school, watched t.v., maybe even worked minimum wage jobs just like the rest of us. They are a product of our culture. If we want good politicians, then we need to cultivate and encourage the values that make for good politicians. The battle for good governance isn't only to be fought in the political arena, but in society at large.

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  3. #543

    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Wow, I missed an entire word in my last post. I am not going to even try anymore.


  4. #544
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    I wonder how well the convention takes off...

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    Last edited by rvg; 08-28-2012 at 22:32.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  5. #545
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    They crushed those speeches.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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  6. #546
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    They crushed those speeches.
    Oh, was the convention televised tonight? Or did you stream the coverage from somewhere? I have not been keeping up.

  7. #547
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    They crushed those speeches.
    Did anyone claim a natural event as an act of god this time?
    #Hillary4prism

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  8. #548

    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    I enjoyed the Paul supporters having their delegates stripped by last minute rule changes and then being shouted down in the middle of the convention with chants of USA USA USA.

    Blind nationalism and party identity no matter how sketchy things look. I prefer the Christian God over the capitalist one (Romney).


  9. #549
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Blind nationalism and party identity no matter how sketchy things look.
    Romney's wife's speech was a beautiful example of this!

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    I prefer the Christian God over the capitalist one (Romney).
    The Real Romney: More Impressive Than You’ll Ever Be
    #Hillary4prism

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  10. #550
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    That was hilarious. Thank you.

    I love Mitt Romney, I think he is awesome and his wife did an excellent job last night. I hope that he wins and we are within striking distance.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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  11. #551
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    I hope that he wins and we are within striking distance.
    eh striking distance of what??
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    eh striking distance of what??
    Well, it is a close election. Things can go either way.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  13. #553
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Obama is doing (or maybe was?) an "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit. Over 10,000 replies and its crashing the Reddit servers.
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  14. #554
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    I love Mitt Romney, I think he is awesome and his wife did an excellent job last night. I hope that he wins and we are within striking distance.
    Why?

    What policies of his benefit you? What policies benefit America as a whole?

    I'm sorry, but business as usual (as represented by the GOP) is not going to help the states this time around.

    Additionally, why did you enjoy his wife's speech? It was such a vapid attempt at pandering to women and the "common man", so incredibly contrived. Romney is not "in touch" with the the average American, and his policies will not help them. Romney said it best himself:

    “I have some great friends who are NASCAR team owners.”
    — When asked if he follows NASCAR (Feb. 26, 2012)

    and

    “I’m in this race because I care about Americans. I’m not concerned about the very poor — we have a safety net there.”
    — (Feb. 2, 2012)



    He's so against the poor he and his party had the Tampa police clear them all out of the city before they had their big bucks convention.
    Last edited by naut; 08-30-2012 at 03:55.
    #Hillary4prism

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  15. #555
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Why?

    What policies of his benefit you? What policies benefit America as a whole?

    I'm sorry, but business as usual (as represented by the GOP) is not going to help the states this time around.

    Additionally, why did you enjoy his wife's speech? It was such a vapid attempt at pandering to women and the "common man", so incredibly contrived. Romney is not "in touch" with the the average American, and his policies will not help them. Romney said it best himself:
    “I have some great friends who are NASCAR team owners.”
    — When asked if he follows NASCAR (Feb. 26, 2012)

    and

    “I’m in this race because I care about Americans. I’m not concerned about the very poor — we have a safety net there.”
    — (Feb. 2, 2012)



    He's so against the poor he and his party had the Tampa police clear them all out of the city before they had their big bucks convention.

    Republicans were honest enough to admit that Obama's speeches were excellent. I've watched every one of these speeches from 6PM to 11 for the past 2 days. I've seen some excellent stuff (including a few duds). I know Romney's record. I like his results and his moderate governing philosophy. I like that he was capable of governing a Democratic state and governing it well, passing middle of the road and successful, lasting policies. I believe that it is time for an administration that is realistic and pragmatic and knows how to accomplish tough things with restraint. I also know that this government is hostile in a new way to individual liberty, business creation and reasonable consensus. I'm not going to say that Obama is the worst President because I don't believe that can be judged reasonably right now, but I don't believe that anyone can honestly say that he has his priorities in order or has been effective. He is governing like a popular junior Senator. Nothing that he proposes will help me or any of my issues along - to answer your question he does nothing for me. I want a Republican administration which will focus government on core responsibilities. I believe that this one will be different because of the individuals that will run it. I could be wrong. I thought Barack Obama could bring Americans together with his lofty and excellent speeches but I was wrong on that. I didn't vote for him, but I wasn't thrilled by any means by McCain

    Most political speeches are attempts to court certain voters and check the right boxes. I'm not sure you get off criticising a speech as "pandering", i'm not sure why you would give one if you weren't trying to tell a story and influence people. Anne Romney is a mother and wife of the nominee, not a politician. I didn't expect much from her having heard her speak before. I was impressed and I know that it was effective.

    Is it "the economy. stupid" or not? People will vote for Obama because of image, not results. I don't know anyone who is better off today than they were 4 years ago. That is a good place to be for the G.O.P. going into a November election.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 08-30-2012 at 04:51.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    I saw some great speeches. I read some random article about Chris Christie's speech being "panned". That is nonsense, it was a great and effective speech. I also saw some crappy ones which leave me questioning the future of some of them. (Ayote, Paul,)

    I thought Rice, Martinez and Ryan had great ones last night. I really didn't know anything about Martinez, but she speaks with the confidence of a trial attorney and has alot of appeal. She's a contender for 2016.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 08-30-2012 at 12:32.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    What I find interesting is that everyone who knows Romney personally finds him incredibly kind and likeable. But this somehow gets lost in translation. (Showing my age here, but) he kinda reminds me of Walter Mondale in this respect. Folks who met Mondale in person were always struck by how handsome and charismatic he was, but it did not transmit over a camera. Similar dynamic seems to be at work with Romney; people who actually know him find him warm and charismatic, but it does not translate on camera.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Why?

    What policies of his benefit you? What policies benefit America as a whole?

    I'm sorry, but business as usual (as represented by the GOP) is not going to help the states this time around.
    As if Obama's policies are doing any good...

    While I hate Romney's social conservative side, I have faith that he will substantially help the economy, which, IMO, is much more important than most social issues.
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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    ...I have faith that he will substantially help the economy, which, IMO, is much more important than most social issues.
    Could you elaborate on that? How do you think Romney will help the economy?
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Could you elaborate on that? How do you think Romney will help the economy?
    Hes a fiscal conservative. I like that. Less regulation means more company growth. Which in turn creates jobs. Taxing the rich even more doesnt do anything because they can still afford to take advantage of loopholes. Plus what kind of message does that send? That success is punished? We should not be vilifying the rich just for being rich. Taxing them will not solve the debt problem as Obama seems to think. To solve the debt problem we need to take in more than we spend. The fact that Obama increased the debt by trillions in one term, and yet still thinks that the solution to the debt problem is more taxation is foolish and incredibly naive. I have to wonder who is giving economic advice to him.

    So lets say Obama wins, and increases the tax rates on the rich even more. What happens when their money dries up? Im fairly certain that the rich people in this country do not have $16 trillion to solve the debt problem.

    And about Romney's comment about the poor- so what? There are charities and other programs in place that assist them. Welfare is a massive sinkhole for federal spending. Ive seen many people who are on welfare using iPods and other fancy electronics. For a while I volunteered regularly at a soup kitchen. I would often see people who we served on smartphones after they took their food. If they were really that poor, why do they have those things? Granted, poverty is still an issue and Im not saying that we should ignore the poor, but it cannot be a concern of the Feds.
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  21. #561
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Hes a fiscal conservative. I like that. Less regulation means more company growth. Which in turn creates jobs. Taxing the rich even more doesnt do anything because they can still afford to take advantage of loopholes. Plus what kind of message does that send? That success is punished? We should not be vilifying the rich just for being rich. Taxing them will not solve the debt problem as Obama seems to think.
    Certainly. But on the other hand, reducing taxes on the rich won't help the economy either and will only eat into the already low revenue stream. As for what message it sends, that might be important from a symbolic perspective but irrelevant from the practical one.

    To solve the debt problem we need to take in more than we spend.
    Absolutely. The question is, how is Romney gonna go about doing that.

    The fact that Obama increased the debt by trillions in one term,...
    He has no money and an uncooperative House. What do you expect him to do, default?


    and yet still thinks that the solution to the debt problem is more taxation is foolish and incredibly naive. I have to wonder who is giving economic advice to him.
    Taxation today is at its lowest level in the past ...umm... 30 years or so.

    So lets say Obama wins, and increases the tax rates on the rich even more. What happens when their money dries up?
    Their money won't dry up.

    Im fairly certain that the rich people in this country do not have $16 trillion to solve the debt problem.
    Raising taxes on the rich won't help much, I agree there. Romney wants to *lower* their taxes. How's that supposed to help?

    And about Romney's comment about the poor- so what? There are charities and other programs in place that assist them. Welfare is a massive sinkhole for federal spending. Ive seen many people who are on welfare using iPods and other fancy electronics. For a while I volunteered regularly at a soup kitchen. I would often see people who we served on smartphones after they took their food. If they were really that poor, why do they have those things? Granted, poverty is still an issue and Im not saying that we should ignore the poor, but it cannot be a concern of the Feds.
    Here's the thing...the poor like to spend, which in many cases accounts for their poverty. Poor will spend close to 100% of what they make. The rich won't. That means that pumping money into the poor == boosting the economy, as almost 100% of that money will be spent. And that's what our economy needs right now: spending. Giving a tax break to the rich will just mean that they have more money to play with on the stock market. How does it help the economy? It doesn't. The poor and their spending drives this economy far more than the rich and their spending. By further crippling the poor, we'll be crippling ourselves. Is it fair to give money to the poor? Hell no. The question is: do you want the economy to recover? If you do, then spending on the poor is a good strategy.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  22. #562
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Absolutely. The question is, how is Romney gonna go about doing that.
    Cut spending. Its the best way. Cut out unnecessary programs, and consolidate ones that overlap.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    He has no money and an uncooperative House. What do you expect him to do, default?
    He had control of both for the first two years. Even then he didnt do anything. People voted out the Democratic house because of this. Not saying that the Repubs did any better, but its fair to point out that even when he had both there was nothing.

    Even so, he didnt have to spend like crazy, $6+ trillion in four years! I mean come on, at this rate the national debt will be way over $20 trillion in 2016.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Taxation today is at its lowest level in the past ...umm... 30 years or so.
    Ok, but that doesnt change the fact that Obama still drones on about how the solution to the debt problem is high taxes for the rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Their money won't dry up.
    Is that guarantee? I think that when push comes to shove, they will just move their capital somewhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Raising taxes on the rich won't help much, I agree there. Romney wants to *lower* their taxes. How's that supposed to help?
    See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Here's the thing...the poor like to spend, which in many cases accounts for their poverty. Poor will spend close to 100% of what they make. The rich won't. That means that pumping money into the poor == boosting the economy, as almost 100% of that money will be spent. And that's what our economy needs right now: spending. Giving a tax break to the rich will just mean that they have more money to play with on the stock market. How does it help the economy? It doesn't. The poor and their spending drives this economy far more than the rich and their spending. By further crippling the poor, we'll be crippling ourselves. Is it fair to give money to the poor? Hell no. The question is: do you want the economy to recover? If you do, then spending on the poor is a good strategy.
    Lol wut?

    Because they are spending 100% of their money, which isnt a lot, they will stay forever poor. Do you even realize what you are saying? If that was really true, why isnt the nation better off? Because the poor are a small percentage of the population. There simply are not enough of them that if they all did what you are saying, to make a difference. If the majority of the country was poor, then maybe it would make a difference. But thankfully, most of Americans are not poor, so your idea has no solid ground to stand upon. A couple million people spending their paychecks, either through a job or through welfare, wont boost the economy.

    However, the rich do not just "play with the stock market." They invest. Invest in the stock market, which has a major effect on the economy, they invest in companies, in new businesses. I wouldnt turn to a poor person to help me fund my new small business proposal. Like it or not, the rich drive the economy.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 08-30-2012 at 15:57.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    He had control of both for the first two years.
    How often does this lie need to be debunked? The correct figure for a super-majority (which is what you need to override a filibuster) was seven weeks.

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Cut spending. Its the best way. Cut out unnecessary programs, and consolidate ones that overlap.
    That's very broad. Can you be more specific?

    He had control of both for the first two years. Even then he didnt do anything. People voted out the Democratic house because of this. Not saying that the Repubs did any better, but its fair to point out that even when.
    Yes, Obamacare is a shame. I'll just point out that Romney was thinking along the same lines in MA.

    Even so, he didnt have to spend like crazy, $6+ trillion in four years! I mean come on, at this rate the national debt will be way over $20 trillion in 2016.
    Can you be specific about the "like crazy" part?

    Ok, but that doesnt change the fact that Obama still drones on about how the solution to the debt problem is high taxes for the rich.
    Fair enough. So, neither candidate is offering anything tangible.

    Is that guarantee? I think that when push comes to shove, they will just move their capital somewhere else.
    You might notice a trend: European elite tends to move their money and residency to the U.S. to avoid taxes. Not the other way around. Capital gains is 15%, that's pretty low considering that most people who work for a living are paying twice as much in taxes.

    Lol wut?

    Because they are spending 100% of their money, which isnt a lot, they will stay forever poor.
    So? Let them stay poor. Their choice. We're talking about boosting the economy.

    Do you even realize what you are saying? If that was really true, why isnt the nation better off? Because the poor are a small percentage of the population. There simply are not enough of them that if they all did what you are saying, to make a difference.
    Hmm...15% of the 300,000,000. That's 45 million people. I wouldn't call that "small"

    If the majority of the country was poor, then maybe it would make a difference. But thankfully, most of Americans are not poor, so your idea has no solid ground to stand upon. A couple million people spending their paychecks, either through a job or through welfare, wont boost the economy.
    45 million. 45.

    However, the rich do not just "play with the stock market." They invest. Invest in the stock market, which has a major effect on the economy,
    Can you be more specific about how that would have a major effect?


    they invest in companies, in new businesses. I wouldnt turn to a poor person to help me fund my new small business proposal. Like it or not, the rich drive the economy.
    And their tax rate is 15%. Lower than anyone else except the poorest of the poor.
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Not that anyone cares, but apparently Paul Ryan's speech last night set some sort of land-speed record for easily disproved falsehoods. But I'm not sure anyone gives a damn, given how entrenched positions are. As Romney's pollster said, "We aren't going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."

    Eerie flashbacks to Bush 43 and his administration's dismissal of the "reality-based community."

    “[Obama] created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report,” Ryan stated. “He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.” But the bipartisan debt commission itself didn’t come back with a report. There were not enough votes to agree upon recommendations, in part due to opposition from committee member, er, Paul Ryan. The statement misleads viewers by implying that Ryan supports the proposal, when he aggressively opposed it, and by using the third person to avoid noting that Ryan was on the commission and voted no.


  26. #566

    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    I think it is cute, hooahguy has bought into the sound bytes without looking into the real numbers.


  27. #567
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Best takedown of the Ryan speech I've read (at lunch):

    Incredibly, the larger theme of Ryan’s speech was to assail Obama for failing to take full responsibilities for this state of affairs — Obama is “shifting blame,” “blaming others.” It is the single largest motif of Ryan’s speech. Let’s review: Ryan helps to create a massive structural deficit, repeatedly and almost single-handedly prevents a solution, then runs for vice-president, blaming Obama for the structural deficit and further blaming him for his unwillingness to agree that this is all his own fault. The really amazing thing is that it could possibly work.

    Member thankful for this post:

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  28. #568
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Good article.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  29. #569
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Best takedown of the Ryan speech I've read (at lunch):

    Incredibly, the larger theme of Ryan’s speech was to assail Obama for failing to take full responsibilities for this state of affairs — Obama is “shifting blame,” “blaming others.” It is the single largest motif of Ryan’s speech. Let’s review: Ryan helps to create a massive structural deficit, repeatedly and almost single-handedly prevents a solution, then runs for vice-president, blaming Obama for the structural deficit and further blaming him for his unwillingness to agree that this is all his own fault. The really amazing thing is that it could possibly work.

    Ah ye cannot beat a bit of double think can ye, I see he claims a plant that closed under Bush is Obama's fault.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 08-30-2012 at 20:03.
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  30. #570
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    That's very broad. Can you be more specific?
    How specific? Like naming specific programs?

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Yes, Obamacare is a shame. I'll just point out that Romney was thinking along the same lines in MA.
    For the record, if it wasnt for the fact that Obamacare would force people to get health insurance, Id be behind it. Its only for that reason I dont like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Can you be specific about the "like crazy" part?
    Seriously? Is $6+ trillion in 4 years not enough?

    #
    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Fair enough. So, neither candidate is offering anything tangible.
    Says you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    You might notice a trend: European elite tends to move their money and residency to the U.S. to avoid taxes. Not the other way around. Capital gains is 15%, that's pretty low considering that most people who work for a living are paying twice as much in taxes.
    Exactly. So why stop a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    So? Let them stay poor. Their choice. We're talking about boosting the economy.
    But would it actually do anything? My bet is on no.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Hmm...15% of the 300,000,000. That's 45 million people. I wouldn't call that "small"
    But how much of that would get back to the government? I remind you that not every poor person has the same spending habits. Lets say someone gets a check for $1,000. How much of that do you honestly think would get back to the government? Id say, not that much.

    And 15% is pretty small.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Can you be more specific about how that would have a major effect?
    Seriously?
    When the stock market is doing well it usually translates to an overall good economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    And their tax rate is 15%. Lower than anyone else except the poorest of the poor.
    Can you be more specific?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    I think it is cute, hooahguy has bought into the sound bytes without looking into the real numbers.
    Feel free to refute me rather than make snide comments.

    And @Lemur: Im sorry, you are right. I keep forgetting that fact. I stand corrected.
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