Geert Wilders comes out of the closet as an anti-semite

[Moros]

See post #12.


When the only "animal rights" legislation you support is banning kosher, then yes, you are an antisemite.

The Belgian jews copes by importing meat, btw. Way to go outsourcing yet another industry!

Apparantly I was wrong Belgium still allows it, outlawing was a big thing though. But it is forbidden in Sweden, Iceland and guess what? Norway.
Also your argument about importing kosher meat is not valid. The biggest producer and by far the largest exporter of Halal meat, which has the same condition and is a bigger industry than kosher meat, is New Zealand. It is also the main source of Halal meat in Europe. And guess what, again these animals were required by law to be sedated. Buyaka! In other words Norway is preventing their muslim and jewish civilians to break their traditional laws. And when they try by exporting, they are usually still breaking them without knowing it. You guys are evil! You should think about moving to another country.

[Fragony]

Kinda scary a realisation that Horetore actually meant it. Lefties usually furiously scream that he's a puppet of the zionist movement. And now all of a sudden when jews don't get special treatment it's anti-semitism, at least make a choice. At first I thought Horetore apreciated the irony but I have always been terrible at leftist logic, I just don't see it

[Sir Moody]

Frag you really need to stop lumping the entire "left" into one group - the Left side of the political scale is made up of many different groups with varying views much like the Right is, and not everyone who aligns to the Left thinks the same thing

in this case I think Horetore is pushing it a little - I don't see where he made his leap to Anti-Semitism...

Wilders seems to be supporting the Ethical slaughter of animals - something I can wholly support

[Fragony]

Frag you really need to stop lumping the entire "left" into one group - the Left side of the political scale is made up of many different groups with varying views much like the Right is, and not everyone who aligns to the Left thinks the same thing

in this case I think Horetore is pushing it a little - I don't see where he made his leap to Anti-Semitism...

Wilders seems to be supporting the Ethical slaughter of animals - something I can wholly support

I know, I am kinda returning the favour when doing so though, but you are of course right.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Apparantly I was wrong Belgium still allows it, outlawing was a big thing though. But it is forbidden in Sweden, Iceland and guess what? Norway.
Also your argument about importing kosher meat is not valid. The biggest producer and by far the largest exporter of Halal meat, which has the same condition and is a bigger industry than kosher meat, is New Zealand. It is also the main source of Halal meat in Europe. And guess what, again these animals were required by law to be sedated. Buyaka! In other words Norway is preventing their muslim and jewish civilians to break their traditional laws. And when they try by exporting, they are usually still breaking them without knowing it. You guys are evil! You should think about moving to another country.

Well, by HoreTore's logic Norway MUST be ant-Semitic then because they still allow whaling, among other things.

[Kralizec]

I'm pretty sure that HoreTore raised this topic before, and that he thought that the Norse law was probably racist at the start as it was enacted in the late 1920-ies or something like that. Which is not an unreasonable assumption.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm pretty sure that HoreTore raised this topic before, and that he thought that the Norse law was probably racist at the start as it was enacted in the late 1920-ies or something like that. Which is not an unreasonable assumption.

Possibly true - but they haven't repealed it since, despite becoming a bigger Kingdom of Peace and Love than the Frontroom.

[Beskar]

There is a moral obligation to animals not to make them suffer unneeded cruelty, it is easy to understand this is not necessarily an anti-semite issue.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There is a moral obligation to animals not to make them suffer unneeded cruelty, it is easy to understand this is not necessarily an anti-semite issue.

You can't have a moral relationship to a amoral entity 0 human beings have a moral obligation not to cause suffering because of how it reflects on us​.

[Fragony]

I'm pretty sure that HoreTore raised this topic before, and that he thought that the Norse law was probably racist at the start as it was enacted in the late 1920-ies or something like that. Which is not an unreasonable assumption.

I think that is true for the Netherlands as well, about the same time it was banned here I believe, law was reversed after the war. At the time, yeah probably anti-semitism. But it's utterly redicoulous to play that card now, and very very annoying. I don't hear the muslims complaining about having to sedate the animals, most already do so anyway. If it's such a big deal to jews they just move to a country where it is allowed. The import of kosher meat isn't banned so they should just shut up.

[Hax]

Frags makes a good point about the sedation of animals. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to ban kosher and halal slaughter outright. Interestingly, the Netherlands is one of the largest exporters of halal meat.

[Papewaio]

Humans are animals.

A secular democracies laws should apply as evenly as possible to all adult members. Religion should not be a trump card, if the religion can get enough votes to win in the voting then that is the way to do it. Also being a religion does not make its ruleset wiser, smarter or better automatically then the majority.

Religion is not a get out of jail card. Otherwise what stops the NT-Mayan apocolapse mixed with Aztecs from having a chocolate orgy finished with the ritual slaying of a member of the group. After all it's a religion.

[Fragony]

Humans are animals.

A secular democracies laws should apply as evenly as possible to all adult members. Religion should not be a trump card, if the religion can get enough votes to win in the voting then that is the way to do it. Also being a religion does not make its ruleset wiser, smarter or better automatically then the majority.

Religion is not a get out of jail card. Otherwise what stops the NT-Mayan apocolapse mixed with Aztecs from having a chocolate orgy finished with the ritual slaying of a member of the group. After all it's a religion.

Agreed. I am really annoyed at what they insist this to be. It's not an attack on jews or muslims (muslims are not looking for pittytude I might add they are fine with it). It's rediculous to suggest otherwise. Jews get the same treatment as everybody else, must be hard on the chosen people, off with the accusations

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Frags makes a good point about the sedation of animals. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to ban kosher and halal slaughter outright. Interestingly, the Netherlands is one of the largest exporters of halal meat.

I believe both Kosher and Halal Law require the animal to be conscious when it dies.

[Fragony]

I believe both Kosher and Halal Law require the animal to be conscious when it dies.

Can only speak for halal but the idea behind it is that animals shouldn't unnecesarily suffer, so sedating animals isn't such a big deal. Technically an animal that was confined isn't halal. Why jews are wailing I don't know.

[Greyblades]

After looking over wikipedia this is what I understand about the matter: the contention is that halal meat must be from an animal that has been slaughtered properly, (the head aligned to mecca, asking allah for permission/forgiveness, etc) particually that the animal is slaughtered by having it's neck sliced in a way that leaves the spinal cord intact as it left to drain of blood. That way the animal's heart still gets signals from the brain to pump expiditing the draining, this ensures as much of the blood as possible is removed from the body before it can clot. Meat that has blood clots in it cant be eaten because blood is one of the forbidden substances that a islamic person cannot eat (personally I think the thought process behind the laws forbidding other methods of slaughter is to avoid such blood clots).

The problem they have with physical blows, electrocution or drugs is that there is no guarentee that stunning the animal will not result in the animal dying before it has been drained, should that happen the heart will have stopped making the jugular cutting inefficient as there is nothing to drive out the blood, leaving enough in the viens and arteries to clot significantly before it can be drained any other way.

There is nothing in the Dhabihah artical about the tradition specifically demanding that the animal being concious, just that it's alive.