Objections to the Sex Trade

[Kadagar_AV]

Maybe. Maybe not. I think I agree with that.

The only thing I'm trying to say here is that we shouldn't work with assumptions based on stereotypical views of something.

Do you REALLY consider my views stereotypical? Heck, I just said I had got paid for sex.

[Major Robert Dump]

The korean bit's oddly specific, do they have a bad reputation in PI?

There is a major problem in the PI with the Korean mafia. Of course the police will not admit it, because they are the very ones being paid off. Angeles City is catching the heavy end of it as far as the go go bar scene goes. Raids on non Korean bars are frequent, and they claim to be looking for underage or human trafficking and will basically arrest every person in the bar.... 12 hours later they are all free.... it's funny I saw one news show where they were taking the "trafficked" workers to the police van and they were all kicking and screaming and yelling "I am trying to work, let me go!" and two girls kicked the van door open and the whole lot of them ran away, and the police did not even chase.
A lot of Angeles City old time bar owners are cashing out and leaving because of this.
A lot of girls do not like working for the Koreans. Some say they are cheapskates despite having lots of money. Others say they are abusive. OF course, this is all hearsay and different opinions.
I do know that there are Korean and Japanese bars where the non koreans and non japanese are not welcome. You will not be thrown out, but you will not be served either, or talked to by the girls. I visited two of these places. Even though most of the employees are filipina, this is the rule, and a couple of girls I met started in a Korean bar and moved bars first chance they got because they didn't like the customer restrictions, as they felt they made less money. The "you're not welcome" bars go beyond just Go Go bars, also. Happens in karaoke bars as well, although hanky panky often does go on in those.
In terms of non-likability, I would say the Arabs and Japanese are tied in first place, then black men, then koreans.

How come you are so good at scrabble, but yet find it so hard to spell "Kadagar"? Getting the vowels in should be easy enough, there are 3 of them and they are all A's. Quite simple, really. "Kad" is of course also acceptable ;)

I type with my toes

Maybe you can remember that the next time you attack me and my family the way that you, Strike, MRD, etc always do in this and other threads. I have no respect for you, based one the way that you have represented yourself on this forum. I didn't disrespect any of your family, which is more respect than you afford me, so quit playing the victim.

I have always made it appoint not to attack your family and your physical appearance and only crack jokes about you and your politics and activities. I would be curious when this allegedly happened, In fact, in another thread I asked people to stop with the personal attacks. When you said what you said in your initial posts, I decided that it was time to take off the gloves. This is not the first time you mixed me up with someone else, just like in the boxing thread.

[Vuk]

This leaves me no choice but to conclude that you are not a tipper, and you are upset by people who choose to throw a little green. You do not tip the pizza delivery man and likely say something like "Sorry man, I'll get you next time" while shrugging your shoulders. Or perhaps you justify not tipping your waitress because the steak, which she did not cook, was too salty. Or perhaps you are the guy who sits in the front row of the strip club and never tips the dancer. Or perhaps you have done all three.
I appreciate that you think so highly of my tipping and being nice as to be rabidly envious, but please, save your subtle, repressed praise, as I certainly do not deserve it. I am just a nice guy, and I would tip you even, despite my pizza having a piece missing.
I am not a tipper? That is because I never receive services that require tipping. I live in the country, so pizza cannot be delivered to me. I don't eat out at restaurants, and I don't go to strip clubs. The few times in my life I have ever been to a restaurant or place where tipping is appropriate, I have tipped generously. I love your assumptions though.


Oh, Dear Vukky, I like how you went from saying that the women there would spit on me if I didn't have money, to saying that they would ignore me if I were just another local guy. Way to backpeddle, bro.

You seriously need to reread my post. I did not say they would spit on you if you did not have the money. I said that they would not even spit on you if you were not paying them. It is a figure of speech that means they would ignore you if you were not paying them. So how is that a backpeddle?

BTW, I never knew I was so dear to you. :) Do I get a hug?
I never said you were throwing them to ground and forcibly raping them, so I don't know where you got that idea. Maybe you honestly do think that there is nothing unethical about your behavior. I guess I'll just have to take your word on that. I do, though, disagree with you, and let's leave it at that.

[Vuk]

I have always made it appoint not to attack your family and your physical appearance and only crack jokes about you and your politics and activities. I would be curious when this allegedly happened, In fact, in another thread I asked people to stop with the personal attacks. When you said what you said in your initial posts, I decided that it was time to take off the gloves. This is not the first time you mixed me up with someone else, just like in the boxing thread.

Maybe I did mix you up with someone else. I apologize if I did. I'll have to go back and check those threads again.

[Major Robert Dump]

I haven't even bought a girl a single drink since the early 90's, before bedding her... Low self esteem is probably what set of my wilder days, so in any way using anything more than myself to get bedded seemed counter productive I guess.

I have absolutely NO idea of how it is in the PI, but the women I've met from all over the world would by and large much prefer to have their own economy and a loving partner, than an economic partner for the night.

With that said, Hax, I have been paid for sex... Didn't know that, now did you :p

So I for one know that it doesn't have to be all bad.

I NEED TO KNOW THE NAME OF THE WOMAN WHO PAID YOU FOR SEX RIGHT NOW SO I CAN ARREST HER AND JAIL HER BECAUSE YOU WERE EXPOLITED OMGUS

[Major Robert Dump]

Greyblades
I should have also mentioned that the Korean bars NEVER get raided

@everyone
I made an unintentional pun when I said taking off the gloves right after I mentioned the boxing thread, please do not start on that road again

[Kadagar_AV]

Might as well share...

one of my first years as ski instructor, a private guest I had at the ski school booked me for the week.

She was the typical American trophy wife, originally from the Neatherlands. late 30's-early 40's... Well kept body, surgically perfected body...

last day, she asked me if I could "escort" her in the evening, as she was seeing some friends at the Casino. Bear in mind, that back then what English I knew I had by and large learnt in school, so naive as I was, I took the word at face value.

And really, what gentleman would NOT offer to escort a lady asking him to?

I dressed up, took her out, and we met up with her friends. I played the charming ski instructor, they played roulette. I much later walked her to her room, came with her in... And we played scrabble all night.

I woke up alone in the hotel room, with a substantial amount of money laying on my jacket as I headed out. I never saw her again. In all fairness though, some of it must have been tip for the week as her instructor. I can't have been THAT good in bed back then.

I told some of the older instructors about it, and they laughed like crazy... I was then the butt of many a joke in the ski school over the next weeks, and I won the "best outfit" at the annual Pimps and Prostitutes party just stumbling in there with my ski instructor dress, not knowing the party was on. Won me a bottle actually.

Can't say I was scarred by it.

[PanzerJaeger]

Sex work is no different than factory work or farm work. As long as these women were not coerced, moralistic objections are unwarranted.

[Greyblades]

Greyblades
I should have also mentioned that the Korean bars NEVER get raided

If you'll excuse my slightly prejudiced comment;
Its probably not a good sign that the only thing in korea that's capable of not acting like a petulant child in comparison to the rest of the world, is it's mafia.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vuk I agree with you in theory, but you have the wrong target here. It's like going into a criticism of drug dealing, but making your target someone who only sells weed. There are sleazier guys in every bar in america. The "so what, I'm a man, men have done this for thousands of years, what is natural is good and it's fun anyway" stuff is mainstream secular thought, save the criticism for those who don't soften it with compassion and decency.

Also there's no point in arguing about peoples porn/video game/drug/whatever habits on the internet, it takes on a whole "teenager vs parent" dynamic pretty quickly. And you'll always lose because all they have to say is "you aren't my dad" and they have you dead to rights.

[a completely inoffensive name]

All these people on the org talking about their active sexual lives...


And I am just sitting here masturbating.

[Kadagar_AV]

All these people on the org talking about their active sexual lives...


And I am just sitting here masturbating.

Dude, hopefully not while reading about our sexual lives...

[a completely inoffensive name]

Dude, hopefully not while reading about our sexual lives...

WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE

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[Centurion1]

WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE

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I IZ AROUSED

[SoFarSoGood]

I tend to agree that in a 'perfect world' sex tourism, or whatever you want to call this sort of holiday, wouldn't happen but the world is not, never has been and never will be perfect and prostitution is the oldest trade known to our species.

Granted these girls are poor and also appreciative of generous benefactor - if you banned this sort of thing they would only be poorer. Do you propose that we pay tax to alleviate their destitution? Will they get money for doing nothing? A bit unfair on western taxpayers one might think.

Also if MRD is really an active serviceman I do not think civilians who sit safely at home have the right to dictate how an off duty serviceman spends his R&R. I have a few friends who have been on active duty tours and they rend to drink alot once they get back. If you disagreed with drinking would you also ban the off-duty serviceman drinking? Hell these guys have put their lives on the line for us and our countries. Even if you would not do this sort of thing yourself (as I wouldn't) I do not think I have the right to dictate my morality on others, particularly when they have seen and done things that I cannot imagine in the service of my country.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Maybe I did mix you up with someone else. I apologize if I did. I'll have to go back and check those threads again.

Were you distracted by the sexy sheep outside your window?

[Strike For The South]

Let me first address the crowd by saying this

I am absolutely hammered

Now, Do I enjoy the fact that there are women in the sex trade? No, I certainly don't. Do I enjoy the fact that a run of the mill American can go to a country and command so many of these workers? No, I really don't.

BUT, this is my problem to get over.

I think it is quite evident that no one forced anyone to do anything, and MRD took all necessary steps to make sure everything was on the up and up. From his previous posting, I can glean he is a man of integrity and has a moral compass. That is more than I can say for the majority on this board. I certainly don't think any less of him.

[Strike For The South]

Sex work is no different than factory work or farm work. As long as these women were not coerced, moralistic objections are unwarranted.

False

Sex, like kissing, is one of the few intimate by which humanity can truly express itself.

I consider its comodification a net loss

Not that anyone of us can or should stop it

[Major Robert Dump]

Sex work is no different than factory work or farm work. As long as these women were not coerced, moralistic objections are unwarranted.

And more of those jobs would still be in America if people had listened to Ross Perot.

I am considering starting a "Keep Scrabble American" movement.

Don't blame me for going to the Philippines. I am but a pawn in a global economy

[rory_20_uk]

Women who choose to go into it... well, it's their choice to get paid relatively well for something that is relatively easy which is relatively poorly thought of. In many cases I am sure they could clean toilets for ten times as long for a fraction of the reward. And it's still a poorly thought of job.

Lots of jobs have problems. Miners in many countries have a high chance of mortality or maiming. Most of these girls, the choice isn't selling (sorry renting) their bodies as opposed to becoming an executive in a blue chip country. And when they're doing it with Westeners, they are helping their country's economy.

[Ronin]

I tend to agree that in a 'perfect world' sex tourism, or whatever you want to call this sort of holiday, wouldn't happen ....

totally agree....

if the world was perfect they'd come to your house.

[rory_20_uk]

Supply and demand - most women can get it for free or just go without; enough men can't, and are prepared to pay to do so to create a market.

[SoFarSoGood]

totally agree....

if the world was perfect they'd come to your house.

My Wife might object.

[Fisherking]

If there is a product someone will pay for it.

People buy garden gnomes, and the larger crime, display them openly!

Isn’t this vestigial slavery?

As for the PI I don’t think their women are exploited in the sex industry. Some other countries yes but not there. Find some place a bit seedyer to complain about.

[Fragony]

Of course women are exploited in the sex industry, the Philipines are notorious for it. Not saying MRD did but many do

[Vladimir]

Of course women are exploited in the sex industry, the Philipines are notorious for it. Not saying MRD did but many do

Exploitation is also a word with many meanings.

[Noncommunist]

Also if MRD is really an active serviceman I do not think civilians who sit safely at home have the right to dictate how an off duty serviceman spends his R&R. I have a few friends who have been on active duty tours and they rend to drink alot once they get back. If you disagreed with drinking would you also ban the off-duty serviceman drinking? Hell these guys have put their lives on the line for us and our countries. Even if you would not do this sort of thing yourself (as I wouldn't) I do not think I have the right to dictate my morality on others, particularly when they have seen and done things that I cannot imagine in the service of my country.

While I do appreciate our military, putting their activities beyond moral concern seems dangerous. Yes, they could be putting their lives in incredible danger but putting them up on a pedestal and having an automatic excuse for their actions seems like it would create some degree of military worship which tends not to be great for democracy.

[Vuk]

Exploitation is also a word with many meanings.

i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

[Vladimir]

i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

I exploit you for enjoyment with every one of your posts; and my intentions are less benevolent than MRD's.

[rory_20_uk]

i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

Which is not to say all prostitutes enjoy what they do all the time... any more than any other partner does.