Euro Area

[Kralizec]

So first you reject the notion that it is anything to do with the euro, then say the problems were caused by property bubbles but now can't explain how this applies to all countries so now you don't want to talk about it anymore.

Did your education end at the age of 12? Because I have never seen an educated adult so lacking in reading comprehension.

Ok, watching that was a waste of time.

- Bloom interrupts Schultz by shouting "Ein volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"
- he was given the opportunity to apologize, but instead of that, he added some more by calling Schultz an undemocratic fascist
- he was asked to leave, because he clearly violated the house rules of the EP
- Bloom screams and yells like a petulant brat

This was actually one of the counterexamples I was going to use.

Farage accuses the president of double standards, which would be a fair enough criticism, but I don't suppose you have any actual examples of that, do you?

A choice of one candidate, who has NO public approval, is NOT a democratic election.

Yes it is. You may want to look up the concept of "indirect election".

See, that was easy.

Since it's clear that we're not going to agree on this point, I'll not discuss this any further.

[SoFarSoGood]

Did your education end at the age of 12? Because I have never seen an educated adult so lacking in reading comprehension.

Well so much for the insults... But the fact is you have totaly failed to explain why half of Europe has needed bailing out. All you can say is that not the euros fault and mutter about property bubbles but that does not explain the Greek or Portuguese problems. Perhaps you would care to edicate me? But no... not talking about it anymore.

but I don't suppose you have any actual examples of that, do you?

Actualy I do... What Mr Bloom was referring to were the accusations of 'mob rule' and 'being like the Nazis' after the demonstration about the Irish Lisbon vote.

Yes it is. You may want to look up the concept of "indirect election".

You must miss that haven of democracy that was the USSR where such rules were the norm.

[Conradus]

I don't know a single country in Western Europe that elects its premier directly. Everywhere a Parliament is elected which in turn chooses a premier. He DOES NOT have to be a member of that Parliament to be elected. How you can compare this to the USSR and other dictatures goes beyond me.

[SoFarSoGood]

I don't know a single country in Western Europe that elects its premier directly. Everywhere a Parliament is elected which in turn chooses a premier. He DOES NOT have to be a member of that Parliament to be elected. How you can compare this to the USSR and other dictatures goes beyond me.

Do you get a choice between cadidates? Did Italy? By the way in Britain the PM has to be a member of Parliament (Lords or Commons in theory but the last PM who sat in the Lords was in the 1960s).

I'm going to ignore you for the time being.

How convenient.

[gaelic cowboy]

I don't know a single country in Western Europe that elects its premier directly. Everywhere a Parliament is elected which in turn chooses a premier. He DOES NOT have to be a member of that Parliament to be elected. How you can compare this to the USSR and other dictatures goes beyond me.

Any place that is essentially following the Westminster system can only elect a Prime Minister from it's currently elected members of parliament.

[Kralizec]

Westminster, yes, but not all "parliamentary" systems.

In the Neth's, and Belgium too I believe, it's actually illegal for a minister to also hold a seat in parliament. If they're elected in a chamber they'll have to give up their seat.

In the UK and Italy on the other hand having a seat in parliament is mandatory so Monti was given a senate seat for just that purpose.

[SoFarSoGood]

so Monti was given a senate seat for just that purpose.

An unelected one.

[gaelic cowboy]

Westminster, yes, but not all "parliamentary" systems.

In the Neth's, and Belgium too I believe, it's actually illegal for a minister to also hold a seat in parliament. If they're elected in a chamber they'll have to give up their seat.

In the UK and Italy on the other hand having a seat in parliament is mandatory so Monti was given a senate seat for just that purpose.

I couldn't give a toss what they do elsewhere this is Ireland an were keeping our system.

[Kralizec]

Did I say you had to?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Westminster, yes, but not all "parliamentary" systems.

In the Neth's, and Belgium too I believe, it's actually illegal for a minister to also hold a seat in parliament. If they're elected in a chamber they'll have to give up their seat.

In the UK and Italy on the other hand having a seat in parliament is mandatory so Monti was given a senate seat for just that purpose.

It's not a proper Parliamentary System then - the whole point is to remove the separation between executive and legislature. This is deliberate and is done for two reasons.

1. To reduce the power of personality politics - most obvious in 2010 when the "Clegg effect" utterly failed to generate actual gains for the Lib-Dems.

2. To hamstring the executive as much as possible and make it vulnerable to the wrath of the MP's elected by the people.

Separation of Powers - just say no.

[Conradus]

Wait separation of powers is a bad thing suddenly?

Other one, the premier of Flanders was not an elected parliamentarian when he first got his position. He replaced the elected one in the middle of the term when he left one of the biggest employers' organisations.

[Kralizec]

It's not a proper Parliamentary System then - the whole point is to remove the separation between executive and legislature. This is deliberate and is done for two reasons.

1. To reduce the power of personality politics - most obvious in 2010 when the "Clegg effect" utterly failed to generate actual gains for the Lib-Dems.

2. To hamstring the executive as much as possible and make it vulnerable to the wrath of the MP's elected by the people.

Separation of Powers - just say no.

A lot of countries stole your idea and added variations to it, so you Brits no longer get to decide what a "proper" parliamentary system is

The defining feature is that the executive depends on the willingness of parliament to support it, and that conversely it can be sacked by a vote of no confidence.

That ministers can't have seats in parliament over here is, as you indicated, meant to seperate powers. It's thought that parliament would be a more credible check on the executive if the executive doesn't get a vote.

[Kralizec]

The only thing that came close was Schultz saying that fear and social decline have always led to fascism. That's not the same as accusing the "no voters" of being fascists. The phrase "mob rule" is not included in that video.

I've already wasted 25 minutes of my life by watching eurosceptic clip-shows that prove nothing. I'm going to ignore you for the time being.

EDIT: just to add,

"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." Jean Monnet 1952

This quotation is a fake.