North Korea: History Will Judge Us Harshly

[Kadagar_AV]

I don't see how those situations are comparable. NK is remarkable in that it has one ally keeping it afloat. The three nations (and the island chain) you mention are in entirely different circumstances. Also, as messed-up as some countries are, none approach the level of top-down institutionalized hell on earth that NK has managed. I assert that NK is a unique and horrifying evil, reflected in history but unequalled in our times.


Not clear on how I'm doing that. The only people with real leverage on NK are the Chinese. So it's obvious that if we want changes to the nation of racist dwarfs, we need to negotiate with the Middle Kingdom. I hadn't really extended my hypothesis beyond that. In fact, I asked more-or-less, "What should we ask from the Chinese?"

Sure, but you started out with:

So what, if anything, should we be doing about it? Seems to this lemur that the only people with real leverage are the Chinese. Could we be be doing more to convince our friends in Beijing to do ... something? If so, what? If not, why? As the title of the thread states, history will judge us harshly. We know that something every bit as bad as the Holocaust is going on. Like the sign on the synagogue says, with unintentional irony, "Never again is now."

You shouldn't set up a question, open up for discussion, give your own hypothesis, and then assume we will all base our thinking around it solely.

I see plenty of reasons why to intervene without China, several ways too. I am sure they have beaches, and the Marine Corps are getting a little lazy.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that China should be a major player as it unfolds. But I don't agree that China must be.

[Lemur]

You shouldn't set up a question, open up for discussion, give your own hypothesis, and then assume we will all base our thinking around it solely.

I see plenty of reasons why to intervene without China, several ways too. I am sure they have beaches, and the Marine Corps are getting a little lazy.

A straight-up military solution should be a last resort, for obvious reasons. Absent the threat of force, getting some sort of change relies on having leverage. And the only people with real leverage are ... wait for it ... the Chinese.

So there you have it: Total war, including the annihilation of Seoul and a sharp increase in the price of Samsung parts (unacceptable to any gamer), or leverage through the Chinese. If you have another workable angle, I'm all ears.

It is easy for us to call NK a hellhole, but I doubt its citizens see it that way. [...] Why take that away from them by exposing them to the terrible truth?

Your tongue appears to be surgically implanted in your cheek.

[Husar]

a sharp increase in the price of Samsung parts (unacceptable to any gamer)

Samsung parts are overrated.

As for NK, I once heard people get the government they deserve/want and they really seem to like theirs.

[Kralizec]

I once read an interview with a North Korean who escaped from one of the labour camps. The most astonishing part of his story was that he was born in the camp. His parents were political dissidents (according to the government, anyway) and he was conceived by them in captivity. And apparently the Great Leader had decreed that "the traitor and his seed shall be punished for three generations" or something like that.

Not that he was the product of a loving relationship. Prisoners who display exemplary behaviour are rewarded with various perks, including a permit to marry and conceive a child - with a spouse designated by the camp guards.

I don't remember how his dad died, but his mother and his brother died because they intended to escape the camp and were betrayed by him, expecting to be rewarded with extra food rations. His mother and brother were publicly executed. He never got any extra food.

Worst. Dictatorship. Ever.

[Hax]

What is life if not the struggle to survive? We only gain satisfaction from the struggle for success, but we gain no satisfaction from success itself. Noone can ever have enough to fulfill all their desires, so why even bother trying to? Once one gives up all hope, then anything is tolerable, even death, even a concentration camp.

I'm sorry, but what the hell is wrong with you? Especially in the light of Krazilec's post, I wonder how can you dismiss the fact that there are people there everyday working themselves half to death in concentration camp every day and have to resort to betraying their families.

I'm sorry, but I think this post is one of the stupidest I've seen here for years, and I'm counting total_relism's thread here.

[Fragony]

and they really seem to like theirs.

Or else -> hi saltmines we are really going to know achother