What about those who die without ever hearing about Jesus?

[total relism]

That's the thing... they both quote the bible, yet have two complete opposite conclusions. John says that unless you are born of water and spirit you can't be saved. then in Acts and Ephesians Paul says you need to believe/have faith in Christ to be saved.
Then you come along and says: If you have not known about Jesus you are still saved. You don't see the conflict here?

But I digress..

There have not been any discussion of what constitutes as the necessary conditions for salvation.
Clearly there are certain conditions to meet in order for the sacrifice of Christ to work. Does he not say (Matt 7:23) "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" to those who profess to believe in him and help his Kingdom move forward?

First I enjoy our discussion very much thank you, you seem to be after understanding regardless if we agree on anything thank you.


Big differences your missing, this is why deeper theology is needed, I just posted on this here with someone [a christian who disagrees with me] please read for my sake post 19 here [responce to basic]
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=583298
this I hope will quickly exspalin why so many different opinions/divisions exist within the church.


The differences are as this topic is about. If they have heard gospel message or not. Diffident rules apply to different circumstances. Paul and the john passage say the same thing, once you believe you become born of the spirit.



agreed on matt passage, but that refers to those that claim to be christian but they never new him means they were never really saved. the whole chapter is about false prophets and false Disciples that claim to believe but do not.