Euro Area

[Husar]

Husar the banks are already lending your money when it's on deposit and even when there is NONE there still lending it on the strength of assets. A million in a back account is not idle however a million in a tin box under the bed most certainly is.

Already said I'm aware of this, but it means you entrust your money to the bank, and if your bank cannot be trusted then you lose your money. Now the government may guarantee some amount but it seems like the government can't be trusted and the fault for this lies with the people, who elected that government. If the people trusted a lie and didn't check back whether all these guarantees actually work out, then it's their own fault for electing the same liars again and again. Now you may say some 48% or whatever didn't elect the liars but that's how the world works. People die every day and it's none of their fault. The alternative is to let the banks go belly up and then 100% of the savings are lost.

The real issue is that nothing was done about the reliance on the banks before they went down the drain and nothing is being done about it now that the problems are obvious. And to say that the government should do something is funny because half of Europe elected conservative, free-market parties that are against government meddling in the private industry.

And @Andres, if you have such a problem with Cypriots surrendering some of their money to get money from Germany and the EU, maybe you want Belgian taxpayers to chip in the amount that the Cypriots would have to pay instead?

[gaelic cowboy]

Already said I'm aware of this, but it means you entrust your money to the bank, and if your bank cannot be trusted then you lose your money. Now the government may guarantee some amount but it seems like the government can't be trusted and the fault for this lies with the people, who elected that government. If the people trusted a lie and didn't check back whether all these guarantees actually work out, then it's their own fault for electing the same liars again and again. Now you may say some 48% or whatever didn't elect the liars but that's how the world works. People die every day and it's none of their fault. The alternative is to let the banks go belly up and then 100% of the savings are lost.

this could be edited quite easily to say Germans closed there eyes to the faults of the Euro and it's banking system too.

Or more simply there is enough blame to go round in both the borrower and lender category.

No exchange rate difference was taken for no risk by lenders and borrowers, we now know that was totally wrong but it is been rewarded by heaping bailout debts onto sovereigns.

The real issue is that nothing was done about the reliance on the banks before they went down the drain and nothing is being done about it now that the problems are obvious. And to say that the government should do something is funny because half of Europe elected conservative, free-market parties that are against government meddling in the private industry.

Indeed and the simplest thing to do is just allow outright monetary financing of all eurozone banks by the ECB. but that wont happen.

At it's core this problem was a pan european bank to bank up which has exposed the poor design of EMU.

You wont solve this problem heaping debts on countries balance sheets when the problem is banking liquidity.

[Andres]

Indeed and the simplest thing to do is just allow outright monetary financing of all eurozone banks by the ECB. but that wont happen.

That's indeed a much better solution (after splitting the toxic products off of the rest).

[Andres]

Already said I'm aware of this, but it means you entrust your money to the bank, and if your bank cannot be trusted then you lose your money. Now the government may guarantee some amount but it seems like the government can't be trusted and the fault for this lies with the people, who elected that government. If the people trusted a lie and didn't check back whether all these guarantees actually work out, then it's their own fault for electing the same liars again and again. Now you may say some 48% or whatever didn't elect the liars but that's how the world works. People die every day and it's none of their fault. The alternative is to let the banks go belly up and then 100% of the savings are lost.

The real issue is that nothing was done about the reliance on the banks before they went down the drain and nothing is being done about it now that the problems are obvious. And to say that the government should do something is funny because half of Europe elected conservative, free-market parties that are against government meddling in the private industry.

And @Andres, if you have such a problem with Cypriots surrendering some of their money to get money from Germany and the EU, maybe you want Belgian taxpayers to chip in the amount that the Cypriots would have to pay instead?

Is this the best they could come up with?

Why not saving the banks by splitting them and putting the toxic products in "bad banks", use European money to recapitalise the "good banks" and bring those "good banks" under control of Europe?

And please, don't give a fleming lessons in solidarity. I have been paying for Wallonia's misery ever since I started working, yet no hair on my head that thinks about robbing the Walloon citizens of my country of their hard earned savings. Their politicians are scum, but that doesn't mean I would ever advocate robbing the Walloon population of their savings.

If that is the sentiment in Germany, then perhaps you should just admit you don't really want a European Union where we stick together in good times and in bad and instead leave us, so that we can devaluate the euro; a measure we can't take with Germany in the Union, since then it would only benefit Germany.

But you won't, because the Euro suits German interests very well. If Germany were outside the Eurozone, your German Mark would be a much stronger currency than the Euro, which would be bad for your succesful export. Compared to what the German Mark would be, the Euro, certainly without Germany in the zone, is weak, so you can now hide behind the Euro which benefits your economy at the expense of the rest of Europe.

You can look at it from that angle too, you know.

Anyway, I'm not saying Germany should just pay off debts of the poorer southern countries, but robbing the population like that is not the way to go. I don't know how this is sold to the German people, but you undermine the entire European banking system with this measure. You are asking for a run on the banks which will make things much worse for the Cypriotic people. And the Italian, Spanish, Portugese and Greek.

[Husar]

this could be edited quite easily to say Germans closed there eyes to the faults of the Euro and it's banking system too.

We closed our eyes when the Eurozone was established already, I never disputed that and have to live with it today...

Why not saving the banks by splitting them and putting the toxic products in "bad banks", use European money to recapitalise the "good banks" and bring those "good banks" under control of Europe?

Because that's socialism.
Also who wants a bad bank and what do you do with them?

And please, don't give a fleming lessons in solidarity. I have been paying for Wallonia's misery ever since I started working, yet no hair on my head that thinks about robbing the Walloon citizens of my country of their hard earned savings. Their politicians are scum, but that doesn't mean I would ever advocate robbing the Walloon population of their savings.

We paid Russia to get East Germany and then we started to pay East Germany to get anywhere, additionally the German states also redistribute money from stronger to weaker ones. However, they are also all united under a central government that establishes some rules, which is the part where the Eurozone fails miserably because everybody still believes in independent nation states...

If that is the sentiment in Germany, then perhaps you should just admit you don't really want a European Union where we stick together in good times and in bad and instead leave us, so that we can devaluate the euro; a measure we can't take with Germany in the Union, since then it would only benefit Germany.

But you won't, because the Euro suits German interests very well. If Germany were outside the Eurozone, your German Mark would be a much stronger currency than the Euro, which would be bad for your succesful export. Compared to what the German Mark would be, the Euro, certainly without Germany in the zone, is weak, so you can now hide behind the Euro which benefits your economy at the expense of the rest of Europe.

And in return we give lots of money to everybody else to keep them afloat. Also the notion that Germany wants to deprive small time cypriot savers of their money is wrong as I have demonstrated earlier. The idea actually came from the EU and their elected government.

You can look at it from that angle too, you know.

That's anti-teutonism and you ignore the part where our economy benefits but the people don't because there was more the government ruined back then in addition to the eurozone entry.
Another thing, if it only benefits Germany, why did Greece fake its finances to get in in the first place?

Anyway, I'm not saying Germany should just pay off debts of the poorer southern countries, but robbing the population like that is not the way to go. I don't know how this is sold to the German people, but you undermine the entire European banking system with this measure. You are asking for a run on the banks which will make things much worse for the Cypriotic people. And the Italian, Spanish, Portugese and Greek.

We are not, you still assume we are the (only) driving force behind this move, which is wrong.
Of course the best move would be to let companies that failed fail. However people are afraid that letting banks fail would be the end of society as we know it and think of all the jobs and stuff.

[Fragony]

Why did the EU accept the Greece scamming, better question. Because they knew it was exactly that. I am glad I payed everything off first opertunity I got and a toast on all of who thought the sky was the limit. Feeling very relaxed in my small but stylish comfortable bliss with my two cats.

[InsaneApache]

Another thing, if it only benefits Germany, why did Greece fake its finances to get in in the first place?

Free money.

[Husar]

Free money.

But we're not allowed to blame them because they are our victims?

[InsaneApache]

I didn't say that the Greek government is blameless but are the Greeks? Are the Cypriots?

I'd say the blame squarely lies with those fanatics who want to shoehorn a diverse Europe into a nation state.