Colorado passes Gun Control Laws

[ICantSpellDawg]

My harping is stylish and inspires envy in others.

Meh, you're a good guy, but on this particular issue your moral compass is not broken; it's absent. And your perspective is warped by living in Bloomberg's fiefdom.

Oh, it most certainly is "warped". My point is that this is what he wants for everyone - warped? maybe. your future? maybe. Be careful who you think is being reasonable. I'm the guy who is for background checks on all sales, Bloomberg is the guy who thinks that if you own a knife that's over 4 inches you are a war criminal.

I still don't know why you are bringing ethics into this. Your ethics on this subject are different from mine, that doesn't mean that mine are absent. I feel like I'm fighting for something that I believe in and not backing down in the face of difficulty. I'm going to marches and not starting physical altercations at any point during my day. I'm correcting my errors publicly when called out and backing up those who back me up. I'm also giving credit to the opposition where it is due.

I support ethical the ethical use of firearms. I believe that banning them, confiscating lawfully used firearms, or limiting them beneath common use is unethical. Likewise, stealing or killing with them is unethical.

[Lemur]

crazy and terrible people still get [guns], so the check just stops it from being easy

This is your response to 2+ million gun purchases prevented by background checks. You obviously have no experience of law enforcement, no friends in law enforcement, no relatives in law enforcement, and no real interest in law enforcement. The willful ignorance of glassing over the prevention of criminals and madmen from easily obtaining guns is ... jaw-dropping. Hence this:

I still don't know why you are bringing ethics into this.

Because taking rational steps to make it harder for criminals and the insane to easily lay hands on weapons is ethical, in every sense of the word. Ignoring the real-world effects of your actions is unethical, in every sense of the word. Not sure how to make that any plainer.

[ICantSpellDawg]

This is your response to 2+ million gun purchases prevented by background checks. You obviously have no experience of law enforcement, no friends in law enforcement, no relatives in law enforcement, and no real interest in law enforcement. The willful ignorance of glassing over the prevention of criminals and madmen from easily obtaining guns is ... jaw-dropping. Hence this:


Because taking rational steps to make it harder for criminals and the insane to easily lay hands on weapons is ethical, in every sense of the word. Ignoring the real-world effects of your actions is unethical, in every sense of the word. Not sure how to make that any plainer.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

It would be one thing if background checks registered in a breakdown of how criminals acquire firearms. They come into possession of firearms not by buying them legally, but through illegal means. Straw purchases (using background checks) are already illegal, but are the number 1 way criminals come into possession of firearms. FFL's selling guns without a background check is already illegal, yet these are the most common ways criminals come into the possession of firearms. These are followed by direct acquisition through theft or sales of firearms acquired from theft. Then, a little-bitty wedge, though legitimate sales without background checks via private seller. I realize that background checks for all sales are a good thing, again enough to support Manchin-Toomey. Your insistence that because this bill failed the sky is falling and lives are disappearing and the blood is on our hands is nonsense. We will try again when more that between 4-6% of Americans believe that this is a more important problem than Cablevision charging too much money for the channels that we don't want.

You make it sound like we are attempting to undo the background checks that govern nearly all sales. This is not true. I have never purchased a firearm without a background check and I support them. You're insistence on the point that I am an ignorant follower with absent ethics sounds absurd to me more and more.

[Lemur]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

Looks like the studies cited are from 1994. You know, when it was legal to do Federally funded gun studies. The good old days. The yesteryear time.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Looks like the studies cited are from 1994. You know, when it was legal to do Federally funded gun studies. The good old days. The yesteryear time.

That's how criminals got guns back then. Would you imagine that it has shifted dramatically since then? I would imagine that, by now, every criminal has a gun who needs a gun. I operate under the this notion that every criminal has a gun and that it's effectively irrelevant whether they get more of them or not. Violent crime has gone down in spite of the reality that criminals have guns, lots of them, and there is nothing that we can do to stop that barring confiscate them and charge them if we find them, prosecute fraudulent dealers, etc. But sure, criminals should be stopped from walking into a gun store or gun shop or private sale and getting yet another gun as easily as possible. At least we could make them dig deeper to get them. But, in the end, they will and probably already do have them.

In a nutshell, these laws are not going to save us from a criminal with a gun. Neither are the police.

The key is to be good to people, educate them so that they can earn money and have self respect and respect for others, and to defend yourself. Also, have a police force who responds to larger threats.

[Husar]

Someone did a show special lately on how gun control can never work once guns have been in a country. (it's three parts in a row)

I know you're gonna hate it anyway, just wanted to let you know.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I don't have flash. I'm not saying that governments couldn't ban firearm sales without longterm success at reducing gun ownership and, indirectly, criminal possession of firearms. What I am saying is that it will not have success so long as American citizens have the inalienable right to keep and bear common use firearms, including handguns. Further, I am against amending or overturning that right. It will not reduce violent crime, but merely reduce our ability to defend ourselves from it and leave us more vulnerable to an ever expanding government of excess.

Some governments who have had success have not recognized the right; some don't have a written constitution, and some are still monarchies

[Lemur]

[C]riminals have guns, lots of them, and there is nothing that we can do to stop that barring confiscate them and charge them if we find them, prosecute fraudulent dealers, etc. But sure, criminals should be stopped from walking into a gun store or gun shop or private sale and getting yet another gun as easily as possible. At least we could make them dig deeper to get them. But, in the end, they will and probably already do have them.

What's weird is that when it comes to preserving the 2nd Amendment in its broadest possible interpretation, you're all about free will and doing your utmost. But when it comes to law enforcement and taking simple steps to make gun acquisition more difficult for criminals and the insane, you're all fatalism and "oh well they'll just arm themselves no matter what."

A striking contrast.

[ICantSpellDawg]

What's weird is that when it comes to preserving the 2nd Amendment in its broadest possible interpretation, you're all about free will and doing your utmost. But when it comes to law enforcement and taking simple steps to make gun acquisition more difficult for criminals and the insane, you're all fatalism and "oh well they'll just arm themselves no matter what."

A striking contrast.

Except that I'm for background checks on all sales. Your belligerence and demonization of opposition seems to be your objective here. That is not moderation. We will try again in the near future and we'd be well advised to settle on where common ground exists, unless you just want this want this to be a midterm poll issue.

I'm starting to think that the Coburn Nics webkey idea should be quickly adopted as an optional tool for gun sellers. I don't that legislation would be needed to get started. I would use it for any sale that I did and it would allow for kinks to be worked out before it was mandated for all sales