Anybody enjoying Game of Thrones? (HBO TV series)

[Beskar]

I'm not quite as sure anymore about whether they'll show that next week or not. I expected that to be the season-ender and a nice cliffhanger, but I saw nothing in the previews that looked like even one shot from the scene in question. It still seems like the logical point at which to end this season, but I expected to see at least one random shot in the preview of what should be a relatively long segment if that event is to actually occur next episode.

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

[Xiahou]

Pure win:
https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

One of my favorite tweets...
"Game of Thrones = mind bottling"
Mind. Bottling. Couldn't agree more.

[Beskar]

Just for those who didn't realise it at first... that song.


That song was too fitting for the occasion.

[rajpoot]

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

I think next season will have the rest of the weddings, burnings, horn blowing and perhaps even get to see some Dorne action.

If Jamie gets back next episode

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?

[Hooahguy]

If Jamie gets back next episode

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How will they handle Joffery's wedding and Tyrion's arrest.....

Also, does anyone else notice that Daario Naharis commands the Second Sons in the TV series.
So they seem to have cut out Brown Ben Plumm.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Does this mean that Daario will betray Danaerys in the show? And where will Tyrion end up....?

Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

[Beskar]

Season 3 was only the first half of the Storm of Swords book. Joffs wedding will be in season 4.

Hah, I keep forgetting what is in what book.

[drone]

It's too soon for Joffrey's wedding. I figured the Yunkai attack would be next week, but they handwaved that so I don't really know how they are going to end the season. I guess Jon Snow at Castle Black, Coldhands, plus some Lannister gloating and other filler.

Michelle Fairley did a wonderful job as it all unravelled before her. Roose Bolton shows his true colors. Blackfish takes an oppurtune moment to urinate. Ygritte as a woman scorned. Rickon speaks!

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the next two seasons.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They will be introducing a lot of new characters (Dorne, Iron Isles threads) to replace the ones being killed off. The actors better be chosen wisely, as they will need to replace main players that viewers got very attached to. Personally, I don't have a clue how they are going to handle A Feast For Crows, there is a lot of filler that doesn't stand up to the epicness of the first 3 books.

[Hooahguy]

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD. Though GRRM better get to finishing book 6, he only has another 2-3 years before the show outpaces the books, and that would present a big problem.

[TinCow]

I have a feeling that they are going to abbreviate AFFC as it is quite boring, possibly integrate it with ADWD.

They have to integrate them, there's no other possibility. They can't just spend an entire season showing only half the cast, then go back and do the other half the next season. It worked poorly enough in book form, it would be a disaster on television.

[rickinator9]

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

[rickinator9]

She could have tried.

[The Stranger]

She's retarded, not a ninja.

fixed.

[drone]

It wouldn't have made any difference. She and Robb would still be dead, and Walder Frey has many sons.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Besides, I haven't done the math but freeing Jaime is probably a net positive for her when everything plays out. Jaime would have been either killed by the Karstarks, or freed after the wedding with both hands and no soul-searching. Frey was going to get his revenge, one way or another, the only wildcard being what role the Karstark men would play.

Rains of Castamere, now on the list of songs nobody wants to hear at a wedding.

[Hooahguy]

For me this is proof that Catelyn is even more stupid.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First freeing up Jamie. Now not throwing the knive at the bad guy when she had the chance.

Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Freeing Jaime was a good thing. Otherwise he would have never lost his hand and wouldnt have, as Drone said, grown a conscience.

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

This, for me, was where it fell off a cliff - I struggled on for two more books before I gave up, but it just got worse.

My major problem with GRRM is that although his characters do have depth he kills them off, or has them act against character, in service to his over-arching plot.

we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.

Ned's fate in the first book is dramatic and fitting, even if it comes about because he acts against character, but the further in you go the more jarring the divide between character path and action becomes.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In book one, Ned's character up to Robert's death dictates he tell Robert the truth, and then deal with the fallout and prevent Robert having the Lion bastards killed. This is exactly how Ned has operated throughout the book - do the honourable thing, do the next honourable thing. But in the last few chapters Ned SUDDENLY decides to lie to his friend and king, forge his will, and try to bribe the watch. He winds up dead.

You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence. The producers must agree, because they wrote the Westerlings out - which will be interesting given that I suspect GRRM wasn't done putting Jaine through the wringer.

[Jolt]

She's a noblewoman, not a ninja.

Oda Nobunaga: "What's the difference?"

[Hooahguy]

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

Theoretically yes, but who is to say that Karstark wouldnt have killed Jaime himself? We dont know. But you are definitely correct that the Red Wedding had a much lower chance of it occurring had Jamie stayed lock up.

[drone]

Jaime was going to die the night Catelyn sent him off with Brienne, he had just killed Rickard's son in an escape attempt. Rickard was already nuts, having already lost 2(?) sons to the Kingslayer in the battle. The Karstarks would have killed him, and Robb would have had to have taken Rickard's head that much sooner. Robb was stuck either way, and Catelyn just wanted her daughters back alive.

Karstark said it best, "You lost the war the day you married her". With the Freys on their side, they would have had the manpower and free movement across the riverlands.

[Greyblades]

But Karstark would not have gone nuts, and Rob would still be alive.

Would he? I think he would have just gone nuts on jamie instead of the two kids. Rob would have executed karstark for that just as easily so there'd be the same net result, just minus Jamie.

we're repeatedly told how wise Catelyn is, but she repeatedly acts like a munchkin on acid - even insanity doesn't cover some of her actions - and her relationship with Jon simply isn't credible.

Personally I take a different tack, she is normally quite wise and this was so before the events of the books, but after brandons fall she starts going nuts and throughout the series she goes from: having enough wisdom to make the right decisions regularly, to: having enough to not go bug-splat insane.
I half suspect a less wise person would have become a gibbering wreck after what she went through, that she became mistake prone actually makes me think she got off light.

You could write that one example off as a single man cracking, but it is repeated over and over, and more crudely each time. By the time we get to Prince Oberon's death and Tyrian exile it's less character driving plot and more contrivance. Even Rob's death is a precise confluence of convenient circumstances that beggars even a devout man's belief in providence.

Well, yeah, in moments of high emotion an stress people crack, when they crack they act out of character and/or make mistakes and in the game of thrones unless someone's covering for you those mistakes get you killed.

[edyzmedieval]

I've never ever seen so much rage directed at a TV show ever, half of the stuff on Twitter and Facebook is about Game of Thrones.

[The Stranger]

people have issues.

[drone]

A slightly deranged man recently said, "If you thought this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention!"

Martin said that he was going to go somewhere without internet for a week after this episode.

[Arjos]

Finally got around watching the episode and I hummed the rains with glee throughout the whole scene ^^

Btw people's reactions are priceless :P
Now I'm actually starting to think, that when the producers said they wanted to do the serie up to this point at least, they probably meant that in the aftermath the audience would just rage quit watching it XDDDDDD

[LittleGrizzly]

Loved the last episode... didn't see that coming at all...

Incredible.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Jaime was going to die the night Catelyn sent him off with Brienne, he had just killed Rickard's son in an escape attempt. Rickard was already nuts, having already lost 2(?) sons to the Kingslayer in the battle. The Karstarks would have killed him, and Robb would have had to have taken Rickard's head that much sooner. Robb was stuck either way, and Catelyn just wanted her daughters back alive.

Karstark said it best, "You lost the war the day you married her". With the Freys on their side, they would have had the manpower and free movement across the riverlands.

I happen to dissagree.

Rob lost the War when he listened to Catelyn and gave Bolton command of the Foot rather than the Greatjohn.

The Greatjon was loyal - Bolton was a known sado-massicist and frankly, it makes no sense that his family still hold the Dreadfort, given that one of his ancestors apparently flayed a Stark. Rob's instinct to give the command to the Greatjohn and keep Bolton with him was correct. The Foot was always going to lead, so what was required of them was a berserk charge and then a commander capable of holding them together afterwards through sheer force of will.

Remember, Bolton was undermining Rob long before the Red Wedding, wasting troops, ceding ground, overstretching.

Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys. Walder Frey had no right to expect the KING to marry one of his daughters during a war, or to pledge to one. Either Catelyn herself, and Sansa, should have been apple inducement, or Edmure. Again, Catelyn's advice to take the deal was wrong. If Rob had refused and offered less, Frey would have taken it. Given their propensity to breed Walder Frey would have been able to calculate that being Uncle to the next King would have put his line more than close enough to the throne to seize it after the War.

It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch, depriving Rob of a capable Herald and reliable bodyguard, even a titular Commander to replace Bolton.

The only instance where Catelyn was correct was regarding Theon, but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Remember, Catelyn was also the one who agreed that, frankly, ludicrous bargain with the Freys.

What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

It was also Catelyn who caused Jon to the be sent to the Watch,

lolwut

but even there a lack of her malign influence might have made Theon loyal enough to refuse his father - something he clearly did consider.

Jeez did Catelyn do 9/11 too?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What was the alternative? The Freys had him over a barrel, and if Robb either kept it in his pants or just ditched Jeyne (or really, even kept her as a mistress) it would've been fine. Walder could've comfortably sat out the war if he didn't feel like haggling, and marrying one of his daughters isn't that crazy. Although they are not the head family in the Riverlands, they basically match the Tullys in strength.

Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.

Contrary to Catelyn's view, Frey did not hold all the cards.

lolwut

Ned wanted to leave Jon at Winterfell, Catelyn refused to have him and Ned couldn't take him to King's Landing - the original plan was to set Jon up with a Holdfast on the New Gift, which had been abandoned by the Watch. It's mentioned in one of the later books.

Remember, Catelyn can't stand Jon, she hates him, she's always hated him. The little bit about her sitting up with him when he had a fever isn't in the books - she's about three times the bitch she is in the series.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Rob could have laid siege to the Twins.

Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Due to the way that the castles are on both sides of the river, Robb would've needed to cross the river somewhere else to conduct a successful siege - which would defeat the point of the whole operation. He needed to get across in a timely fashion to destroy one of the Lannister armies before it met up with the other. Besieging the towers or just trying to find another crossing would make it impossible to do that.

Only true if you define "successful" as "reduction of the stronghold" - in this case investment of one side would close the crossing, depriving the Freys of their primary source of income and means to pay their army. Walder would then be in a precarious position because he has created his own Byzantine court - he keeps it in line by picking the winning side.

It's not a question of Rob being able to beat him - it's a question of him being able to make life more unpleasant than Walder can tolerate.

Agreeing to put all your dynastic eggs in one basket is, strategically speaking, too much for an army and a river crossing. Rob would have nothing left to offer, say, the Tyrells or the Ironborn.