When did American society become so feminized?

[Fragony]

Nonsense, you just stab with it, streetfights are no martial arts

[Husar]

Really? lol

No, it's not the same.

Can you name some masculine societies you like? Would you say Russian society is masculine?

[Fisherking]

Just to interpose, I don’t think he meant feminized so much as he meant effeminized.

He is railing against what he sees as of bunch of pansy, risk adverse, litigious, and feel-good laws and regulations, particularly since 9/11.

Put on your macho hat, think of John Wayne, walk with a swagger and call everyone pilgrim. That should put you in the right mood.

[Myth]

And yes, it does make sense. It is the same reason I carry a flashlight. Not because I go out and say "Hey, I am gonna drop something in a dark hole and need a flashlight to see it today!", or "I think tonight is a nice night to break down!", but because it is one of three easy to carry tools that come in handy in random situations fairly often, and are not a pain to carry around. A leatherman multi-tool, a flashlight, and a folding pocket knife are three things I carry on my belt and in my pocket everywhere (including when I go out to eat).

It is for the same reason I keep a short-handled, flat shovel, a fire extinguisher, a first-aid kit, a sand-log, and a hatchet in my car at all times: just because they may come in handy at some point in the day, and I would rather have them at that time than not. Why doesn't that make any sense? Or would you rather be the guy who pays out his rump for a service he could easily have done himself

Flashlight - i use my mobile phone. That Galaxy SIII has a widget called "assistive light" and it's as bright as the independence day mothership. Granted it won't last too long but then again I don't plan on doing caligraphy in the dark in the middle of nowhere.

Short shovel I only carry in my trunk when it's winter here, because it sucks major spheric objects to gets stuck with a vehicle that is not 4x4 where your tires eventually creat little arching patches of glass-smooth ice and you can't get out.

Fire extinquisher and first aid kit are mandatory for all motor driven road vehicles here. Alongside a reflective vest, a reflective triangle and spare bulbs for your short headlights and your stop lights. Is it differente over there? Here, when the cop is really pissed/bored/hungry for a bribe he will check every litle detail and ask to see if you have that stuff in your trunk.

I have a shovel that can also be replaced with a hatched and was considering carrying it in my trunk but I can't forsee a situation where I would actually make use of a hatchet, apart from going medeival on someone which is not really a sound plan over here. I do however carry a blanket for unforseen sexy time in some field with my GF.

Nonsense, you just stab with it, streetfights are no martial arts

Eh, if you're fighting someone who knows what they are doing you'd get that knife stuck in your bunghole. If the both of you are inexperienced average joes then probably you having a knife will make him retreat. Knowing how to use it only matters if you're fighitg a skilled opponent.

[Fisherking]

Nonsense, you just stab with it, streetfights are no martial arts

Strike is from Texas, he is just telling you how it is.

As in “Boy, you pull that thing on me, it best be made out of chocolate, cause, you go’na be the one eating it.”

[Fragony]

Eh, if you're fighting someone who knows what they are doing you'd get that knife stuck in your bunghole. If the both of you are inexperienced average joes then probably you having a knife will make him retreat. Knowing how to use it only matters if you're fighitg a skilled opponent.

Disarming someone is nigh impossible, I got a black belt in jiu-jitsu and I can assure you that I can't disarm someone. You would need a handlock movement to make someone release it and you are very unlikely to make one, and you will probably get hurt trying. If someone has a knive, run. Much better.

[Myth]

Yes but the average idiot will not have your posture, foot work, speed, reflexes and confidence. He will probably flail madly at you until he starts blinking sweat from his eyes. At some point you'd be able to bring him down and avoid the knife hand. If you're a striker you can knock him out, if you're a grappler/lockdown specialist you can bring him to heel. I used to train Aikido but only for a couple of years, and I know that what you train for and what happens in the street are two different things. But, if push comes to shove, someone like you will have a much higher chance to win with no or maye a minor wound. Perhaps you will get a horizontal slash or two against your forearms, big deal. Once you get a hold of the moron wiht the knife you can jump on his head until it resembles playdough. I know I would.

If the guy with the knife is some street thug who has been in may fights (and knife figths) then you'd be better of running, grabbing something with better reach or shooting him. Here's somethig fun to watch while on the subject.

[Fragony]

The average person will tear me up pretty badly really. Martial arts are a sport, except for kickboxing that is actually fighting

Edit, just got to, we do it differently here, at my home great fun

The REAL bear jew https://smg.photobucket.com/user/Fra...tml?sort=3&o=0

Me being seriously beat up
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps32f2a91e.jpg

Goodnight et adieu https://smg.photobucket.com/user/Fra...ml?sort=3&o=24

Full contact no protection ;)

[Vuk]

If you are not trained with a knife and try to defend yourself with it, you will hurt yourself

I cannot believe it, but I actually find myself agreeing with Strike on something! No, not because it is likely that your opponent will pull the knife out of your hand an use your own knife on you, but mainly, when an attacker who wants to rough you up and take your money sees you reaching for a knife, his intent will get a lot more serious. Most times you are gonna be attacked by more than one person. If you are trying to stab the guy, his friends who were just gonna rough you up are gonna stab you now or maybe beat you to death instead. Second of all, if they start grappling with you, are you gonna be able to keep hold of the knife? If not, it could be used directly against you. Even if you do keep it in your hand, you still may be held down and beaten to death.

Nonsense, you just stab with it, streetfights are no martial arts

You are right that they are not martial arts, but there is more to it than 'just stab with it'. How do you just stab with it? Martial arts are controlled practice sessions to train reflexes in you for real situations, but often times the practice is so removed from reality that they end up training reactions in you that can get you killed (such as bjj to name one of many). Having real experience in fights trains reflexes a lot better.
You are right that in a street fight people aren't gonna be doing a bunch of fancy looking techniques and are not going to be really thinking, but the guy with the best reflexes is still gonna win. Knowing what you are doing is pretty important.
Like I say, chances are in many situations that you will not even get your pocket knife out of your pocket and unfolded in time.

Flashlight - i use my mobile phone. That Galaxy SIII has a widget called "assistive light" and it's as bright as the independence day mothership. Granted it won't last too long but then again I don't plan on doing caligraphy in the dark in the middle of nowhere.

Short shovel I only carry in my trunk when it's winter here, because it sucks major spheric objects to gets stuck with a vehicle that is not 4x4 where your tires eventually creat little arching patches of glass-smooth ice and you can't get out.

Fire extinquisher and first aid kit are mandatory for all motor driven road vehicles here. Alongside a reflective vest, a reflective triangle and spare bulbs for your short headlights and your stop lights. Is it differente over there? Here, when the cop is really pissed/bored/hungry for a bribe he will check every litle detail and ask to see if you have that stuff in your trunk.

I have a shovel that can also be replaced with a hatched and was considering carrying it in my trunk but I can't forsee a situation where I would actually make use of a hatchet, apart from going medeival on someone which is not really a sound plan over here. I do however carry a blanket for unforseen sexy time in some field with my GF.




Eh, if you're fighting someone who knows what they are doing you'd get that knife stuck in your bunghole. If the both of you are inexperienced average joes then probably you having a knife will make him retreat. Knowing how to use it only matters if you're fighitg a skilled opponent.

No, nothing like that is required here. Most people think I am really weird for having that stuff in my car. lol
As far as a hatchet, the reason I have it is mostly to break glass. I have needed it to break a windshield before (which even with a hatchet is a lot harder than you would think BTW). Also, I use my car off-road a lot during certain times of the year (Crown Vic FTW), so it can come in handy then.

Strike is from Texas, he is just telling you how it is.

As in “Boy, you pull that thing on me, it best be made out of chocolate, cause, you go’na be the one eating it.”

Though, realistically Strike probably knows a lot less and has a lot less experience than Frags when it comes to real fights and to martial arts training.

Disarming someone is nigh impossible, I got a black belt in jiu-jitsu and I can assure you that I can't disarm someone. You would need a handlock movement to make someone release it and you are very unlikely to make one, and you will probably get hurt trying. If someone has a knive, run. Much better.

True, straight out disarming someone with a BJJ handlock or whatever is hard, but kicking someone in lower gut, then in the face when they reel tends to disarm them pretty quickly.

My advice to you Frags (if you are gonna insist on using a knife) is to get a fixed-blade with 6" blade on it, and install the sheath into a pocket in your overcoat in the winter, and one with a 4" inch blade for your trouser pocket in the summer.
If you cannot deploy your knife before you a knifed, it really does you no good.

[Myth]

Do not undersetimate yoursel Fragony!

[The Lurker Below]

Just to interpose, I don’t think he meant feminized so much as he meant effeminized.

He is railing against what he sees as of bunch of pansy, risk adverse, litigious, and feel-good laws and regulations, particularly since 9/11.

Put on your macho hat, think of John Wayne, walk with a swagger and call everyone pilgrim. That should put you in the right mood.

well said.
may I add - When we stopped calling them thongs and men decided they were okay to wear in places other than the showers and the beach. You CANNOT defend a woman's honor wearing flipflops. Oh, and when we stopped defending a woman's honor, that didn't help.

[Fragony]

My advice to you Frags (if you are gonna insist on using a knife) is to get a fixed-blade with 6" blade on it, and install the sheath into a pocket in your overcoat in the winter, and one with a 4" inch blade for your trouser pocket in the summer.
If you cannot deploy your knife before you a knifed, it really does you no good.

I am never in the the situation, just got it with me. I'll walk away from a 12 year old

[rvg]

...I'll walk away from a 12 year old

Who wouldn't? God forbid you hurt the kid, you'll be in a world of trouble (especially if it's Obama's son). If he hurts you, he'll be facing very limited liabilities due to age.

[Vuk]

I am never in the the situation, just got it with me. I'll walk away from a 12 year old

Yeah, but you have it with you in case you are ever in that situation, right? Best to be prepared.

EDIT: Yeah, and I don't really get the whole 12 year old thing either.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Mate, I used my folding knife all the time when I was working at Arbys to open packages, break-down boxes, etc.
It is a pretty useful tool for tons of different jobs and just for everyday life when not on the job.

I would not dispute this. Being a country boy, myself, I carry all kinds of things on my person, or in my vehicle that I might find a use for during my daily activities. But......

....when I need to enter a public building, especially a government building, I leave everything except my cell phone and wallet in my truck, because I know that I will need to pass through a security checkpoint to enter. This sort of thing has been going on for years where I live. I know what to expect and deal with it accordingly.

So I do not understand the big deal, here. If you don't like the way things work, bitch to someone who might be able to do something about it. Otherwise.....just get on with it............

[Vuk]

....when I need to enter a public building, especially a government building, I leave everything except my cell phone and wallet in my truck, because I know that I will need to pass through a security checkpoint to enter. This sort of thing has been going on for years where I live. I know what to expect and deal with it accordingly.

So I do not understand the big deal, here. If you don't like the way things work, bitch to someone who might be able to do something about it. Otherwise.....just get on with it............

Does every supermarket need to operate like a high security government building though? Isn't that a little ridiculous? Does an Occupational Health Clinic need to?
As far as the bolded bit, you could say that about any conversation had on the Org. The point is to discuss the merits and demerits and whether or not the measures taken are reasonable.

[Fragony]

EDIT: Yeah, and I don't really get the whole 12 year old thing either.

I just don't like violence, so I walk. Doesn't really matter to me that I could easily win

[Papewaio]

If it is a medical clinic then it has a higher than normal chance of being held up by a desperate addict.

Addicts + disease + sharp objects = very dangerous.

[Vuk]

Sure, I can understand that, but what about all the supermarkets who have armed security and still don't let you bring a pocket knife in?
Also, this was an occupational health clinic, and as far as I know they mostly just do drug testing and occupational therapy, so I doubt they would have any drugs there (or many diseased individuals coming in).
It just seems like major overkill and a really unnecessary inconvenience for the customer/client. (not to mention discriminatory, because a guy in a suit could walk in with a steel pen clipped on his shirt pocket and they wouldn't blink an eye) I think they are just paranoid.

[Vuk]

I just don't like violence, so I walk. Doesn't really matter to me that I could easily win

Yeah, and that is the right thing to do, but you cannot always walk away. My point is that since you are carrying a knife for those times when you cannot walk away, I would simply switch the knife and how a carry it to something more effective.

[Fragony]

Could always walk away really, but you can open a folder in a split-second, even by taking it out of your trousers if there's a pin on it's back

[Vuk]

Nah, you cannot always walk away. Not when your back is against a wall and someone is intent on killing you. Would you walk away if someone was kidnapping a friend of yours?

It is pretty easy to whip it out switch-blade fashion regularly, but if someone is trying to kill you and your 'fight or flight' response has kicked in, are you gonna have the coordination to do that quickly and without it flying out of your hand? You will probably be fumbling quite a bit if your life is really on the line.

[Fragony]

Nah, you cannot always walk away. Not when your back is against a wall and someone is intent on killing you. Would you walk away if someone was kidnapping a friend of yours?

It is pretty easy to whip it out switch-blade fashion regularly, but if someone is trying to kill you and your 'fight or flight' response has kicked in, are you gonna have the coordination to do that quickly and without it flying out of your hand? You will probably be fumbling quite a bit if your life is really on the line.

I don't know, never been in such a situation, avoiding any conflict works great so far. People who are violent scare me, so I take my loss when it comes to any pride. What is there to gain really, you will only hurt someone, or he will hurt you, better to just be a sissy no?

[Vuk]

I don't know, never been in such a situation, avoiding any conflict works great so far. People who are violent scare me, so I take my loss when it comes to any pride. What is there to gain really, you will only hurt someone, or he will hurt you, better to just be a sissy no?

Yeah, I definitely agree there. Avoidance has always been my strategy too.

EDIT:

Guess my point is this song here. Best to swallow your pride and avoid trouble when you can, but there are some times when you have to stand your ground.

[The Lurker Below]

flip flop flip flop - the sound of today's man trying to stand his ground. the flip flop is just another symptom of further effeminization. Kenny wore boots.

[Beskar]

People who have pocket knives here are those who seek to cause intimidation and threaten to 'stab people' or mug them. I am not talking about a toolkit which is in the back of the car, i am on about those who wear such items on their person.

There is no reason to carry around a pocket knife unless you intend to stick it into some one. So when you turn up at the random clinic and pull out a knife at them, no wonder they get worked up and tell you to get rid of it.

[Vuk]

People who have pocket knives here are those who seek to cause intimidation and threaten to 'stab people' or mug them. I am not talking about a toolkit which is in the back of the car, i am on about those who wear such items on their person.

There is no reason to carry around a pocket knife unless you intend to stick it into some one. So when you turn up at the random clinic and pull out a knife at them, no wonder they get worked up and tell you to get rid of it.

lmao mate, that is too funny. I am happy for you and your countrymen that you live in a country where the only people to carry pocket knives are those who seek to intimidate others, but for your to make the statement "There is no reason to carry around a pocket knife unless you intend to stick it into some one." is beyond absurd. You are seriously telling me that the only reason I carry my pocket knife (and have since before I have memory) is so that I can stick someone with it? Well I must be pretty darned bad if after all these years I have still failed to do that! I guess 80%+ of guys around where I live are all murderers to! I am glad that you decided that. Just because your country is hell hole does not give you reason to tell me and most people where I live that we are all want-to-be murderers!
And the way you word it makes it sound like I pulled a knife out, un-folded it, and stuck it at the woman's throat! She told me to empty my pockets, so I took it out (still folded up) and set it on the table. That is hardly threatening.

[Beskar]

So because you banned guns, people are using tools as weapons? And now you're afraid of tools too?

Shocker.

We are not talking about screw driver or a wench, but a knife. A knife is for cutting things. A knife at a dinner table or a kitchen is none-threatening. A knife at a shop counter is something else entirely.

[Vuk]

We are not talking about screw driver or a wench, but a knife. A knife is for cutting things. A knife at a dinner table or a kitchen is none-threatening. A knife at a shop counter is something else entirely.

lol mate, you gonna cut pretty deep to hit a blood vessel large enough to really cause damage with a pocket knife (except on the neck if you are really lucky or really know what you are doing). The only way to realistically kill someone with a pocket knife is to stab them, and a screw driver would do better than most pocket knives. Also, you consider wenches to be tools where you come from? Around here we don't speak about women that way.

[The Lurker Below]

We are not talking about screw driver or a wench, but a knife. A knife is for cutting things. A knife at a dinner table or a kitchen is none-threatening. A knife at a shop counter is something else entirely.

I pray I never have reason to harm someone, but if I did I'd much prefer a good Phillips head with a 6" shaft to my 2" blade that I use to cut string on hay bales, plastic off wiring, and clean out from under my nails with. I suspect I'd find a good wrench with 2+ lbs of iron to be a better bludgeon weapon than my "cutting" pocket knife. Let alone how dangerous we could be with a wench. I could flat out pull somebody clean in two with one them.