Civil War (playing as Rome)

[ReluctantSamurai]

Which leads me to wonder if perhaps I might've had more Loyalist stacks spawn if I'd had my full 12 armies / 6 fleets.

Pray you don't get this:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...k-out-mine!!!&

Beware the Radious Mod....

[glyphz]

Triggered CW just a while back and was 2 turns in when I got my first crash. Posting some info here before I hit the sack. I was playing as Junii (normal), and the CW message popped at the start of the 65th turn (209BC), the turn after I hit Imperium level 4 on capturing my 38th settlement.

The Senate loyalists took Pella as their capital and spawned 5 armies and 3 fleets (and after reloading the previous save) were all led by the 8 known members of the other distinguished houses. Though they formerly led 5 armies and 3 fleets of my armies, they did not assume their exact same position as rebel leaders, specifically 3 of them switched positions (gen to adm & vice-versa). Lost 2 spies and 1 dignitary, with the dignitary the only 1 I'm sure of that was accompanying a seceding general. Can't remember where the spies were but I faintly remember 1 spy to be near (if not at) Pella region. The loss of Pella dropped me back to Imperium 3. One turn in, their armies didn't stick together and seem to splintered a bit, but mostly to the south. Too early to make a conclusion, and will post more once I start a new session.

As mentioned I had 38 settlements (w/ 11 fully controlled region and another 6 regions spread amongst 3 client-states) when Imperium 4 started, and took another one before I ended turn 64. My military was composed of 8 armies and 4 fleets. House Junii had 3 members w/ Faction Leader (age 53) having 48 gravitas, 2 ambition, while the other 2 had gravitas of 15 & 5. Funny thing though, my FL died the same turn as the CW. Senate support was at 44% when CW triggered, with the rebel Houses had 17% & 13%. Other house was at 26%. Senate support ratio was at 70/30 then for the 'loyal' houses. Possible lead perhaps?

[Bramborough]

Triggered CW just a while back and was 2 turns in when I got my first crash. Posting some info here before I hit the sack. I was playing as Junii (normal), and the CW message popped at the start of the 65th turn (209BC), the turn after I hit Imperium level 4 on capturing my 38th settlement.

The Senate loyalists took Pella as their capital and spawned 5 armies and 3 fleets (and after reloading the previous save) were all led by the 8 known members of the other distinguished houses. Though they formerly led 5 armies and 3 fleets of my armies, they did not assume their exact same position as rebel leaders, specifically 3 of them switched positions (gen to adm & vice-versa). Lost 2 spies and 1 dignitary, with the dignitary the only 1 I'm sure of that was accompanying a seceding general. Can't remember where the spies were but I faintly remember 1 spy to be near (if not at) Pella region. The loss of Pella dropped me back to Imperium 3. One turn in, their armies didn't stick together and seem to splintered a bit, but mostly to the south. Too early to make a conclusion, and will post more once I start a new session.

As mentioned I had 38 settlements (w/ 11 fully controlled region and another 6 regions spread amongst 3 client-states) when Imperium 4 started, and took another one before I ended turn 64. My military was composed of 8 armies and 4 fleets. House Junii had 3 members w/ Faction Leader (age 53) having 48 gravitas, 2 ambition, while the other 2 had gravitas of 15 & 5. Funny thing though, my FL died the same turn as the CW. Senate support was at 44% when CW triggered, with the rebel Houses had 17% & 13%. Other house was at 26%. Senate support ratio was at 70/30 then for the 'loyal' houses. Possible lead perhaps?

Interesting point...I hadn't thought to factor in "Other Houses" influence at the bottom. Didn't pay much attention to it in my campaign. Makes sense, though, since we know that the Other Houses will remain loyal during the CW. Perhaps the trick to early CW avoidance isn't merely keeping one's own influence in check within a certain range, but also maintaining a rough parity between "Own Family + Other Houses" versus "2 Opposing Families".

In addition, your Loyalist spawn location pretty much confirms for me that my "pretty close to Rome" idea is not borne out by evidence. Pella is a pretty good distance away from Rome. At the other end of the spectrum, I've read others (playing other factions) state that their rebelling stacks spawned directly in their capital...so I presume the Loyalists could spawn in Roma itself. At this point, the pattern I see is that the CW stacks seem to spawn in a provincial capital, not a minor settlement. Backwards Logic and glyphz, did you have full control of Singidum's and Pella's provinces, respectively?

[glyphz]

Backwards Logic and glyphz, did you have full control of Singidum's and Pella's provinces, respectively?

All of Macedonia was Roman, completely Latin-ized and no unrest.

edit:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After playing some more, I'm thankful the CW triggered at Pella. I had recently got rid of the Odryzian(?) Kingdom, and kicked the Tribalii off of Thrace and forcing them into becoming a client-state by surrounding their last settlement in Dacia (where I didn't want to expand yet). Pergamum was my next target in the East since it had the other settlement in Thrace, and has carved itself a nice and secure kingdom in most of northern Anatolia (w/ their forces busy w/ Armenia). Since I was in the midst of pacifying my holdings in Thrace, I happen to have 2 legions there at Navissos and Pulpuduvum(?), plus one at Athens, one at Illyria in the midst of recruitment, and one army and fleet near Rhodos.

Positioned my 2 legions in Thrace to just the north of Pella, with the southern legions and fleet sailed in haste to secure Athens, and the one in Illyria to Apollonia. As for enemy movement, one loyalist army took Larissa easily, 2 stopped further south in sight of Athens and Sparta, one also went south, but then curved west towards Apollonia, and the last sneaked around the NW mountains and stopped at the border of Illyria and Thrace. The navies went south near Athens.

The hostile armies in Greece were still close enough to reinforce each other, so 2 N armies secured Pella, while the Athenian division (2a,1f) ganged up on and decimated as much of the enemy fleet as they can before quickly regrouping in Athens. The western legion chased after the enemy army in the mountains, but could not force an engagement, so I had a spy take out its general at least. End of turn, their army at Larissa left and besieged Athens by itself but didn't attack. The 2 armies that stuck together took Apollonia, while in the northern front the enemy army engaged mine in the field. Since the Illyrian army was in the midst of recruitment, they were near equal in number, and I had to manually assume control of the defense (this is where my first crash happened). It was my first time controlling gladiators, and they did impressively well as flank troops as well as ambush troops, suffering little casualties compared to my heavily-battered frontline legionnaires. The enemy fleets remained nearby in the Aegean, thankfully, and were duly sunk next turn. The next 2 turns were summarily used to gang-up on the remaining rebel armies and mopping-up the survivors. I feared the remaining armies in Apollonia would, after realizing that they were cornered, would sail to Italy, which was empty of any troops, but the campaign AI proved itself incompetent.

First impression, the CW in Rome 2 feels like a downgrade, if not short, compared to Rome I CW (or perhaps I prefer the bigger scope in the former). With other Houses not having established their own empires in other parts of the world, like in Rome I, the CW feels constrained, and very short once you're able to bring back your legions to take control. The silly campaign AI doesn't seem to help at all. Though they do try to expand rapidly, they didn't defend their settlements. A few extra loyalist stacks will perhaps help them balance offense and defense, or perhaps giving them the whole province, or both, or ...nevermind

[Backwards Logic]

I did not have the entirety of Pannonia (Singidun's Province); I was missing Akink. I did have full Latin Culture and my public order was at +100.

[Seyavash]

Just got my CW as Carthage. I have only 6 armies, 26 regions and 6 provinces thus I am only at start of 3rd imperium. The other's family overall influence was 46% and mine a mere 18 with fairly low gravitas for my family. However I noticed that one of the rival families had a general with a gravitas of 51%. I reloaded and confirmed that if I weaken the individual general's gravitas I postpone the CW. I did not touch the Other family's influence so I am thinking that the trigger is a combination of family influence and individual gravitas, probably as others suggested a proportional calculation between your family and all of the others.

[Quillan]

I suspect that the game adds up a total of "civil war points" every turn and compares that to a trigger number to see if the war triggers. I'd imagine that several things combine into that total: imperium, family influence, the influence of the other families within the faction, and probably ambition, but I can't say for certain what is most important. Here's a bit of a breakdown on my current game. It is 50 BC, and the civil war has not occurred yet.

Game is normal/normal, as this is my first full campaign and I've been taking it very slowly learning about everything along the way. Most of the territory I've picked up has been from snagging rebellious provinces while the few war declarations have mainly been at the request of military allies or client states. I'm playing as the Julii, my current senate influence is 61% (down from 74%), my two good generals are rank 3 and 2 with gravitas 79 and 58 respectively. The Cornelii are at 11% influence, the Junii are at 10% influence, and the other houses are 17%. The drop in senate influence has come from several adoptions and a couple of promotions, trying to trigger the war. I've got 44 regions at the moment (like I said, taking it very slowly). I am into the fourth imperium level, but I've been there for 20 years plus at this point.

The slow pace of this campaign has had a couple of consequences, one being that nobody has gotten huge amounts of gravitas/influence and no general has been beyond rank 4 to date. Since they've mainly been dying of old age (very old age sometimes, one general was still leading his army in the field at the age of 92) those who do get high gravitas tend to die shortly thereafter. Only now have I been pushing it; my leading family general is making 4 gravitas per turn and is only 37 years old. I've decided to finally conquer Iberia and he's leading the charge, taking all the glory himself. The thing is, he is ambition 2, while my other guy getting 3 gravitas per turn is only ambition 1. I could not adopt any ambition 3 generals who didn't have any negative gravitas per turn traits.

[Sp4]

Pray you don't get this:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...k-out-mine!!!&

Beware the Radious Mod....

That is probably the effect of modding. I really don't see why people need more armies than the game allows. Makes it all interesting. Personally, I like the limited amount of armies and the fact that it is kind of hard to balance squalor against public order. Makes the game seem not as spammy and 'I'll just do whatever the hell I want' as older titles once you got to get an income of a trillion money.