You must be reading quality media. A simple google should do.Originally Posted by HoreTore
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
You must be reading quality media. A simple google should do.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
There's hardly a green organization in the world who is happy with Kyoto, and I note that you are incapable of showing evidence to the contrary.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Did I say green organisations. Sorry you will have to find it yourself, I don't bother with discussing religion.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I don't know if global warming exists or not, but I am all for it because I hate sweaters
Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I havn't read all the posts but I can imagine what has been said,(again and again), however I would like to make this point.
Science is never settled.
Anyone who says otherwise has no understanding of theory and science.
Over to you.
Oh and something else for you to ponder on.
This thing called global warming has resulted in the largest transfer of money from poor people to rich people in history. A sort of reverse Robin Hood. When the whole sorry mess comes crashing down there will be blood on the streets.
Last edited by InsaneApache; 09-18-2013 at 10:19.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
And how they love it. Apart from the scam that is the emission trade there is also the moral blackmail from green organisition who have absolutily no problem with skullf*cking children, the younger the better. And of course there is the government who loves the extra taxes they can demand, and of course the flaggalanties who all buy it.
In the meantime an ice-age is comming so get a good coat
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
You mean from lazy moochers to hard-working people who deserve it.
At least it's a proper application of glorious capitalism, your Robin Hood was a filthy communist who believed in the dirty redistribution.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
So you do believe in climate change?In the meantime an ice-age is comming so get a good coat
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Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Climate change yeah, manmade climate change no
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
You responded to a claim on green organizations.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Nope, that's just where you want the discussion to go
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I like how an average volcanic eruption injects more carbon in the atmosphere than human kind has for the last 100 years. Yet we still get bull like "carbon footprints" and the asshats at the top want to push a global carbon tax on us.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
So.... Reduced consumption is something you consider bad....?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
/facepalm/
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
You are like a small country which has logical fallacies and deliberately inept arguments as its major exports.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
It's an honest question, not an accusation or anything like that, IA.
The aim and (debatable) effect of a tax, in this case a carbon tax, is to reduce consumption in the market economy and usually increase consumption in government.
Given Myth's previous posts, I had the impression that he considers consumption in the market economy as bad, thus I would think a tax reducing that kind of consumption to be right up his alley. This works the same whether or not climate change is true, since the tax will lower consumption anyway.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
That's where the emission-trade comes in. The big guns can buy it off if they hand over protection-money, nothing happens in the end, they can pump as much CO2 as they want and the consumer gets the bill. Emission-rights speculations and outright fraud is very lucrative. It's one of the most refined pyramide-games ever.
Last edited by Fragony; 09-19-2013 at 11:21.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Hence the reason why the greens are far from happy with Kyoto.
We need to change our way of consumption, and Kyoto doesn't do that.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
They may not be happy but they are very happy with the global-warming hoax, scaring naive people is also very lucrative. A lot of the money from the immesion-rights rolls straight into their bankaccounts to lobby for useless windmills. Such a mignificant pie. Lying about the climate is a multi-billion business
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Yeah, the emission trade is not a failure of the environmental protection groups but of the political and economic implementation.
What it should do though is redistribute money to industries which reduce their emissions, thus making their product cheaper than those from industries which have to pay for their high emission levels. Whether that is actually noticeable or relevant I don't know though.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
For us westerners, production costs in China are pretty irrelevant. You as a consumer won't notice it if the Chinese factory increases or decreases its production costs by, say, 20%.
I don't see product price as the problem. What's more of a problem is that we buy one, and then buy a new one a year later because the first one stops working. We've stopped producing durable items, that needs to be changed. Furniture is a good example here. Compare the furniture you've bought with the furniture your grand-parents bought. The drop in quality is extreme. If I buy a table now, it'll get wobbly within a few years. My fathers dinner table, inherited from the 20's, is as sturey as it was when it was made.
Capitalism encourages mass-producing low quality products, and that's the major problem IMO. Furniture, iPhones, cars, etc. All of it is crap, and intended as crap.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
By placing windmills that are not only harmfull for the enviroment, and run on tax rather than wind? For something that doesn't exist? There is no (manmade) global warming it's a hoax. There is no real rise in temperature (0.2 I believe in a century, now it's cooling down) there are no melting icecaps, there no rising sealevels. There are only people who get really rich from it, and pass the bill.
Can I get a Rolex with this https://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&s...IWcL20XiulM%3A
Lotsa industrial periods, or it is of course perfectly normal that it occasionally warms up or cools down. For the historians among is, medieval warmth rings a bell? What what was that, an industrial period, cow-farts perhaps
Last edited by Fragony; 09-19-2013 at 12:17.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I wanted to bring that up at first but was afraid to derail the topic. I agree with all of this. My dad just lost a drilling machine that was about as old as me, most of the stuff you can buy nowadays wouldn't last anywhere near as long. A lot of the parts are even intended to fail by adding low quality parts on purpose.
What I do like in this regard are services which buy old electronics and either resell them after some refurbishing or recycle them so the rare materials in them can be used again.
And Fragony, I don't care as much about whether global warming is manmade or not, I care about cars and their emissions being harmful to pretty much everything and the same is true for many factory exhaust gases. Not everything we pollute the air with is actually completely harmless and if we can find better alternatives, why not use/encourage them?
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Gutmensch socialist ferret international apocalypse windmills!And Fragony, I don't care as much about whether global warming is manmade or not, I care about cars and their emissions being harmful to pretty much everything and the same is true for many factory exhaust gases. Not everything we pollute the air with is actually completely harmless and if we can find better alternatives, why not use/encourage them?
Furthermore: Eurabia quality intellectualoco media!
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I don't view consumption as bad or good, I view it as necessary. What I want is for our needs to be met with manufacturing and energy that are clean and go hand-in-hand with our beautiful planet.
However this tax will do none of those things. The money will go somewhere, and it will mostly condition people that being taxed on externally imposed guilt is OK. Next thing you know, there will be "fat tax" because people feel guilty that they are fat.
The big polluters - petroleum based chemical industry, hevy MFG and resource excavation and treatment, power plants will all keep on truckn' and making money. That tax will do jack to stop them or make them consider alternative ways of doing their thing.
Seriously, the only way for alterntive energy and manufacturing to be developed is for us to run out of oil and coal reserves.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Human behaviour is determined in a large part by economic realities. If you want to change human behaviour, you cannot avoid economic incentitives.
In addition to supporting taxes on pollution, I also support taxes on stuff like sugar products. Raise the tax on the bad stuff, and we'll choose the good stuff.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
I have no idea if any of this is relevant, I've barely skimmed the thread, but here is my opinion.
A carbon tax is designed to tax big polluters with the idea that they will want to lessen emissions by finding better, more sustainable ways of fueling their work, and that the money from the tax will be put into environmental research and aid to help ensure that that the system is cycle of benefit.
The end goal of a carbon tax is to reduce emissions, and I believe if enforced it should have the effect it wants. More reward for sustainable design should be introduced as incentive possibly. Maybe limits as well, where if they pass a certain threshold for a set amount of time, they pay less for the next year or so. I don't know how exactly to solve the issue, but it is a right step towards getting funding and also reducing the harm we do.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Surprisingly enough I agree with Horetore's principle. If they make less money off fossil fuels and more off sustainable sources, they'll choose that. Image is important as well and companies will do anything to get ahead, even taking a loss to ensure future profits.
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
The main problem with it, as I see it, is that it relies on market mechanisms to solve the issue.
The free market doesn't work, bring back the good ol' government sledgehammer to hammer through change.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" - Romans 1:22
Yeah, I agree with you there. Free market is useless for these kinds of things.
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