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  1. #15
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Glorious American Justice system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    These are two different topics. People who quote the prison numbers relative to Europe are arguing that they are themselves proof of a poor justice system. But they aren't for the reason I mentioned. The question of why we have more criminals in America is not really related to why our justice system is harsher. We made our system harsher in response to a crime wave.
    And did it work out well? The question is whether the harsher justice system actually reduces crime or not. Unless you think improvement is for chumps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    If you keep committing crimes, the penalties should increase. But I think you are being deliberately stubborn here. The aclu infographic does simply say that he was given life in jail for borrowing a truck, does it not? And yet he had been convicted of armed robbery, check fraud, and "unintentionally" killing someone in a knife fight (was he trying to stab to wound???). It's very unlikely that he was caught and convicted for every crime he committed, so likely he committed more. That makes the aclu's claim blatant propaganda.
    But he did not steal any truck, so why was he sentenced? Because he "likely committed something else"? Or simply because he had some previous crimes and they just felt like randomly arresting him again for those? Your quote clearly says that his co-worker was mistaken when he reported the truck stolen because he didn't know Jones had it:
    While renovating a motel, Jones used a co-worker’s truck, which was being used at the time as a company vehicle, to visit his wife and children. When the co-worker discovered the truck missing, he reported it stolen, not knowing that Jones had it. Jones was pulled over while driving the truck, arrested and convicted to life without parole in Louisiana due to his previous conviction.
    Or do you get jail time for driving over a stop sign in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    His "personality disorder" was that he worshipped steffi graf, and wanted to injure monica seles because she was graf's main competitor. Why would that get him a lower sentence? What's the difference between that and someone obsessed with racial or religious issues, who tries to kill someone on that account? What's the difference between that and someone watching about of al-quaeda propaganda videos and letting off a bomb at a marathon? Anyway, you don't just have a "personality disorder" like that. He chose over the years to obsess over steffi graf, to live vicariously through her successes and defeats.

    Allowing psychiatrists to pretend like their expertise applies to moral questions like this happens in american courts too however. That's why minimum sentencing laws are important.
    Did you talk to the guy or do you just like to pretend you know better than the psychiatrists who examined him?
    If you want to doubt their expert opinion, you are the one who has to provide the proof.
    So far you just want to exact revenge on someone who may have had serious mental issues. The comparison to terrorists is a bit silly since he was neither close to being a mass murderer nor did he plan and attempt more attacks after his conviction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    like I said, you are completely confused about justice. Seles is completely right to be outraged that he was not punished. Without him being punished there is no justice.

    If his obsession with steffi graf had lead to him raping her instead of stabbing seles, would you still want him on probation? With "counseling" for her "psychological injuries" since her physical ones were "negligable"?
    A rape is far more intimate than a stabbing into a relatively harmless area. And I don't know about the exactreasons that led him to do this. Experts who examined them did however find that he should get a lower sentence and you still haven't shown how and why they were wrong.
    I'm not confused about justice, justice as you define it is about dwelling over the past while I prefer to improve the future. No amount of justice will ever undo the past. In some cases punishment serves a purpose but judges and experts are there to determine when and how much has to be applied. Do you really think it is always just to completely satisfy a victim's desire for revenge? Do you think Iran allowing a woman to pour acid into a man's face after he blinded her by doing the same to her makes the world a better place?
    Last edited by Husar; 12-07-2013 at 23:00.


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