BR Reminder?

[Hax]

Yeah, but how they see themselves and others are tied together with what race and ethnicity they are... So.... Yeah... Kind of a moot point.

Race is not a valid scientific term.

Where it concerns ethnicity, well, now everything is so mixed anyways that it doesn't really make a lot of sense. Look at the Baltic states, for example.

Oh, and if you claim there is no such thing as "Jews", giving them a state sure seems like a bad idea. Though they seemed all up for it, no?

Who is reading too much into something here? I never said there is no such thing as "Jews"; I simply demonstrated that the cultural self-identification as "Jewish" clearly transcends ethnic lines.

[Kadagar_AV]

Race is not a valid scientific term.

No?

You sure you don't just not want it to be?

Where it concerns ethnicity, well, now everything is so mixed anyways that it doesn't really make a lot of sense. Look at the Baltic states, for example.

I don't agree. Even with pillaged-out western places like the Baltic States, you can still tell they are caucasian and not of the unnameable race known for dwelling on the African continent sub-sahara.

Who is reading too much into something here? I never said there is no such thing as "Jews"; I simply demonstrated that the cultural self-identification as "Jewish" clearly transcends ethnic lines.

So there are Jews then, of all sorts.


What are we debating and why?

[Montmorency]

you can still tell they are caucasian

What is a Caucasian?

[Kadagar_AV]

What is a Caucasian?

White.

[Montmorency]

What could be more worthless than a category based on skin color? That's even less than the "race" the others here reject.

[Hax]

Okay, let's go along with your logic.

Where does "white" stop. Are Iranians white? Or Russians?

[Kadagar_AV]

Okay, let's go along with your logic.

Where does "white" stop. Are Iranians white? Or Russians?

White Iranians and white Russians, sure? Doh!

[Tuuvi]

No?

You sure you don't just not want it to be?

Kadagar I thought you were one of those intellectuals who trusted science over ideology. Scientists have discarded racial categories because they are useless for studying humanity. In the first half of the 20th century any attempt at a scientific system of racial classification had to include dozens of "sub-races", and the boundaries between them were very hard to define. Which features and traits do you base your classifications on? How do you define groups like the Ainu, who have thick body hair and other European features, but have lived in Japan for thousands of years and have Asian traits as well?

I do agree that ethnicity is heavily intertwined with culture. To say that it's not amounts to using the term as another word for race. So how do you attack culture without attacking ethnicity? You don't. I think most people would be just as offended by having their culture called trash as they would their ethnicity. Your culture is your way of life, after all, and it's a big part of what makes you who you are.

A lot of the abuses minority groups face are caused in part by the belief that their culture is inferior to the culture of the majority. The experiences of Native Americans in boarding schools are a good example of this phenomenon. The majority culture of the US and Canada believed that American Indian cultures were savage and an impediment to civilized life, so they began forcing Indian children to go to boarding schools where they weren't allowed to speak their language and were taught how to live as Euro-Americans.

This was a traumatic experience for many of the children, because they didn't speak English and they were beaten and laughed at whenever they tried to speak in their own language. When they were allowed to return home, they couldn't communicate with family members and they didn't fit into the community anymore, so their family and social ties were broken. The attack on American Indian cultures was an attack on American Indian people.

That being said, I don't think it's necessary to attack a culture for aspects you don't approve of. Culture is not static, it is fluid and it evolves over time. Practices and beliefs can be modified or discontinued without radically changing the culture as a whole. Also, just because a practice is prevalent in a certain culture doesn't always mean that all members of the culture approve or engage in that practice. A culture is the sum of its parts, and I believe there is both good and bad in all cultures.

This doesn't mean immigrants should be given special treatment either. If you immigrate to a country, you should be prepared to follow its laws and deal with some of its customs that you might not like. Throwing Muslims in jail for honor killings does not amount to asking them to give up their language, food and religion.