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Thread: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

  1. #61
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Math is to scientists what weight training is to athletes.

    Puny athletes are not great performers, mathematically inept scientists are not great either.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  2. #62
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Math is to scientists what weight training is to athletes.

    Puny athletes are not great performers, mathematically inept scientists are not great either.
    Biology is Chemistry.
    Chemistry is Physics.
    Physics is Math.

    Essentially, everything is math.
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  3. #63
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Essentially, everything is math.
    Of course!

    Mathematics isn't about calculations. Mathematics is a way of thinking, the calculations are just a result of that way of thinking.



    EDIT: Oh, and I nearly forgot to add that mathematics is also the only true absolute truth in the universe.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  4. #64
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Yep. The best thing about math is that it's universal.

    Oh, and I nearly forgot to add that mathematics is also the only true absolute truth in the universe.
    It would be more accurate to say that math is the only currently known absolute truth.
    Last edited by rvg; 02-03-2014 at 23:42.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  5. #65
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Mathematics doesn't exist in the universe. It exists in our heads. It is a made up tool we use to add precision to our attempts to categorize, describe, and where possible predict existence. Mathematics is perfect because it is a mental construct and not, per se, real.

    Still all, a damned useful tool.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Mathematics is not really an "absolute truth". There are many cases of needing to pick your definitions and axioms just right for it to work out. You have to agree to 0^0 being 1, for instance or lot's of things involving factorials fall apart. This gets significantly less trivial when it comes to subjects such as topology and set theory which is where some of the most deep results and insights come from. One particular example of this has to do with the nature of infinity and infinite sets. Consider a function f(x) which maps x from the set of Reals to the range -1 to 1 (exclusive) using:
    Code:
    f(x) = x / (1 + (abs(x))
    It's clear that f is 'onto' (the entire range -1 to 1 is covered) and 'one-to-one' (for each x there is a unique value of f(x)). Therefore by a counting analogy there are exactly as many instances of x (i.e numbers in the set of Reals) as there are values of f(x). However, notice that each value of f(x) is also a Real number and therefore part of the same set as x. Therefore ...


    On the other hand "Mathematics" is not made up as in "fantasy". It is every bit as real as "a metre" or "a Newton" or any SI unit or physics concept you care to name. It's rather more real in some senses than most of those such as "distance" or "time" because we know] that at a fundamental level "distance" and "time" are conceptual crutches that reality does not admit whereas reality does admit the notions of "addition" or "multiplication".
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  7. #67
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Mathematics is not really an "absolute truth". There are many cases of needing to pick your definitions and axioms just right for it to work out. You have to agree to 0^0 being 1, for instance or lot's of things involving factorials fall apart. This gets significantly less trivial when it comes to subjects such as topology and set theory which is where some of the most deep results and insights come from. One particular example of this has to do with the nature of infinity and infinite sets. Consider a function f(x) which maps x from the set of Reals to the range -1 to 1 (exclusive) using:
    Code:
    f(x) = x / (1 + (abs(x))
    It's clear that f is 'onto' (the entire range -1 to 1 is covered) and 'one-to-one' (for each x there is a unique value of f(x)). Therefore by a counting analogy there are exactly as many instances of x (i.e numbers in the set of Reals) as there are values of f(x). However, notice that each value of f(x) is also a Real number and therefore part of the same set as x. Therefore ...


    On the other hand "Mathematics" is not made up as in "fantasy". It is every bit as real as "a metre" or "a Newton" or any SI unit or physics concept you care to name. It's rather more real in some senses than most of those such as "distance" or "time" because we know] that at a fundamental level "distance" and "time" are conceptual crutches that reality does not admit whereas reality does admit the notions of "addition" or "multiplication".
    But what of that is mathematics? Is it the function and its solution, or is it rather the method of thinking which allowed its creation?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #68

    Default Re: Scientific Research Is Unreliable, Unreliable Scientists Report

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I omitted the conclusion because it's much more fun if you draw the inference yourself but if you insist: the range -1 to 1 (exclusive) contains exactly as many Reals as the entire set of Reals. For an encore, note how multiplication by some constant A or addition by some constant B yields a different function with exactly the same number of outputs but mapped onto a different range, which by analogy proves the same fact about that range. We have found a quantity which appears in the same instant both "smaller" than itself and also "larger" than itself.
    This quantity is known as the cardinality of the continuum (c).

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    But what of that is mathematics? Is it the function and its solution, or is it rather the method of thinking which allowed its creation?
    The question is whether or not the same thinking applied differently can lead to incompatible results. To stick with the theme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_hypothesis
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 02-04-2014 at 18:35.
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