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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Tanks against AA actually sounds like a brilliant idea. It would be a rather one sided conflict, don't you think?
So yeah, I would advocate it.
Even better though, would be to have a force of combined arms. Kind of like Russia.
But you can go with your "air superiority vs AA idea", and see how far it takes you.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
This is Russia today and only the army. They have large land components also attached to their navies. At this point i am fairly certain that indeed most of the "unidentified armed men" at Crimea are indeed 810th Naval infantry Brigade and 382nd separate battalion Marines, with thrown in some Airborne guys from Moscow military district.
This is Russia today: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...a_Army_New.png
Understand that each Motor Infantry Brigade has a tank battalion and only reserve Brigades are equipped with outdated equipment. In total: 455 upgraded T-72´s upgraded to modern standards. 4500 T-80´s and 743 T-90´s.....
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
T-72 of Iraq has little to none to do with T-72B2 and B3 their armor,fire control and sights have been updated. In matter of fact the vaunted T-90 is continuation of T-72 while T-80 an independent progress somewhat (Im sure Hus as tank nerd can tell it better). All in all after ten years of upgrades the Russian army is just a mad beast compared to what it was. Its all just madness...
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
To me what world really needs is at least decade of US isolationist policies. So the rest of us will understand that we cant depend that US will take care everything and we the rest can spit on them afterwards. It is no surprise that also in these forums it is the soldiers who are the most pacifist.![]()
Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-06-2014 at 08:35.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
“if we emphasize our air power (and by "we" I mean "NATO") Russian AA will get crushed.” How many times I will have to tell: “YOU DIDN’T SUCEED TO DO IT AGAINST SERBIA, A COUNTRY OF 8 MILLIONS”. So except in movies, how do you plan to do against Russia?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
What US policy would that be? The policy of “we had no idea” or “we’ll have to look into that” or was it the policy of “we’ll have to do something”.
How is it that we spy on everyone, including our own citizens but everything that happens is a surprise and our only policy is a reaction to what someone else has done. Obviously, forewarned is not forearmed. US policy is wait and see what happens, then send drones and Special Ops maybe, throw money maybe, sanctions maybe, oh, just let someone else do it! And give a speech about how great we are.
Meanwhile the EU looks on.
This may blow over in the Ukraine, or maybe everyone will just ignore it like what happened in Georgia. It is either the West gets some spine or they get to act surprised when Russia, China, or North Korea makes some provocative move again.
Rinse and repeat.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Apparently Russian EW (electronic warfare) guys have been doing their job and of course as we are living days of social media so they leaked it. Part of conversation between EU official and Estonian minister of foreign affairs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCn5iwvOvm8
the full discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CQHcYVCKR0
I think it shows very well also that the Western media is very silent about this. In the discussion the foreign minister of Estonia concludes that the snipers of Maidan square were hired by the pro western faction. In another words self provocation. I am personally really starting to loose faith to this "peoples revolution"...
Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-06-2014 at 10:48.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
I have absolutily no idea
I came to post this, I'm glad someone else found it already. As I said, revolutions are always directed by someone's interests. I won't be surprised if foreign agencies are also linked in with this. The people will believe whatever you brainwash them to believe. Yell it loudly enough through a megaphone, pay off the barking media and suddenly the moral justification is on your side. Your end goal is to take the bone from the other dog and gnaw upon it yourself. And this plays well into the interest of the larger dog who wants your end of the alley as his turf. And this plays into the interest of the even larger dog which wants to give you several billions in loans and to decommission your military. So on and so forth.
And the miserable SOBs on the square actually are convinced that the EU/NATO will give them a better standard of living. Protip: it won't.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Check this as well http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rQnXo2HMriQ <- completily insane europhile in Kiev.
We didn't elect him. I will never vote on a christian party because europhiles don't get struck by lightning when they say 'democracy'
Total freak. Also seems to freak out the Ukrainiens. Padded walls, good idea?
Last edited by Fragony; 03-06-2014 at 11:09.
From what I didn't get from quality-media (hi Hussie) the nationalists have some VERY dubious movements, and as Horrie hinted at earlier in a different thread, the ordinary Ukarinians seem to just want indepence. Not EU-membership like the bedroomstory-moms that is 'quality media' wants us to think.
Crimea has just sent a formal proposal to Russia to be annexed as part of Russia. I guess the putsch did not go quite like as planned. I can only continue praising the Russian and Ukrainian service men who restrain themselves from doing anything that cant be taken back. While the bastards on both sides in power play their games.
Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-06-2014 at 12:04.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
The regular people want an end to being boned by super rich corrupt gluteus maximus holes. They have a poor choice of it: either the super rich corrupt guy who lives in a mansion with fricking panthers and lions and is supported by like minded russian oligarchs, or the super rich (wannabe) corrupt people who want to have the opportunity to steal enough of the people's money so they too can live in such a mansion. These guys are supported by the west and will be given such a chance in exchange for getting their country to join NATO and possibly the EU, a process which itself is profitable to said countries (and probably will not be for Ukraine). The people? Who cares about them!
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
It is the only safe move for the Russians after going in.
If they just wait and let a new government take over there is the likelihood down the road that Ukraine won’t let them renew the basing agreement. You could see it coming and one of the oldest political ploys in the books.
Next, does Russia fall to economic sanctions or does the EU need Russian oil and gas more.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
There are a few interesting things we found out from this conversation:
1) Members of Parliament were bullied and threatened, that there were people coming over to their houses at night, probably threatening their families as well
2) That the snipers were most likely used by the protesters themselves to incite further riots and not Yanukovich.
3) Most importantly, that EU and West don't care about what kind of fascists and murderers they support, as long as it is in their interest.
I knew about 1) and 3) and was suspecting 2).
This should have been a "stop the presses" kind of news, because it fundamentally changes the very nature of the conflict.
Now, where's rvg to explain the connection between NATO and freedom again...
Well, who knows. Is this just a provocative clip with part of a larger discussion.
It could be correct or misinformation or a deflection of some sort. Who knows who is behind it?
All sides can have motives for causing more trouble.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
Estonia is a NATO and EU country. Both sides of the discussion have been identified. This is as real as it gets. It is slowly appearing all over the news at least here in Finland. Maybe West just forgot that they are not the only ones with abilities for surveillance. Apparently Russians caught it, because the EU woman was at Ukraine and stupidly called from un secure line to the Estonian minister.
Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-06-2014 at 12:23.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
And, that is most probably it for Crimea. Ukraine can kiss it goodbye.
The Russians played this one perfectly. Taking control of the entire peninsula without having (officially) a single Russian soldier there, without firing a single shot, without anyone getting killed and winning the propaganda battle. A freakin' masterpiece of strategy, even though I, personally, would have liked that Ukraine managed to keep its territory intact.
Yes, and I take the long view. People think they are right from their side, and often think the ends justify the means.
I don’t believe in good guys and bad guys anymore. Just who’s self interest is it in and could it still have been someone with another motive.
I worked for the government to long to take a simple view of anything.
Education: that which reveals to the wise,
and conceals from the stupid,
the vast limits of their knowledge.
Mark Twain
I dont believe in good or bad either in these kind of cases. Thats why i used " " World politics do not operate on morals but necessities. Still under all the crap there are real people most of the time suffering from these chess games, whether it was civilians shot in the left eye at Maidan square or service men ordered in harms way by politicians or the gazillion rest of alternatives.
Last edited by Kagemusha; 03-06-2014 at 12:33.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
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