Yeah, because you're an Islamist if you observe halal....
What rubbish.
In other news, observing mass now makes you a Jesuit.
Yeah, because you're an Islamist if you observe halal....
What rubbish.
In other news, observing mass now makes you a Jesuit.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
I really have never understood the dissonance that allows an individual both to hold humans as exceptional in the natural order and to hold "lower animals" as deserving of equal protections.
If these dirty Jews and Muslims are subhuman savages, then why not allow them the same level of consideration you so graciously grant to the animals they consume?
Or is a Muslim even less than a cow to you?
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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I have seen some crazies before, a female vegan who believed animals to be above humans and that humans who kill animals should be tried for murder with death sentence as an option. She was honestly a bat-insane individual and when I questioned if her cat should be tried and executed for killing a bird for a 'gift', she frothed at the mouth saying I should die for the animal genocide I commit for eating meat.
I wish I could have said the earlier post to her, but it was one of those 'after-moments' when you reflect on what occurred and the fact she was insane made me stay clear of it.
Though for earlier mentions of "I don't eat meat because it is cruel, but I do like to hunt for sport" does take the biscuit.
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This has been stated already:
The discussion is about how we kill them.
I am of course also interested in a discussion on how we treat them generally as they live, but right now and right here we are discussing the killing process.
Do we want it in a humane way, or do we want to hang them upside down and slit their throats?
Yeah but that's not the order in which things are supposed to happen. First you stun them so they no longer feel anything and don't spoil, then you bleed them and finally you do the hanging upside down and carve them up. And the quicker and cleaner the better.
The act of killing them is not going to get much more humane if you actually want to eat them.
Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 05-05-2014 at 21:21.
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“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
Then what business is it of yours how Muslims like their food killed? Do you lecture on the evils of European wolves for the manner in which they hunt their prey?Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Either Muslims are subhuman, in which case their methods are just as valid as the methods of any other predator, or Muslims are human and your equals, and this is little more than an academic disagreement.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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Last edited by Pannonian; 05-05-2014 at 22:23.
That's precisely what I've been getting at for a while now...Do I have to spell it out more clearly for you?
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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Yes?
Have I ever ever EVER said I am not vehemently against bronze/iron age dogma?
Again, what's your point?
I just happen to dislike muslims more than jews, solely because there are a larger amount of muslims than jews - specially when you count the ones affecting my everyday life.
That aside, both religions are absolutely and equally horrendous.
I just happen to dislike muslims more than jews, solely because there are a larger amount of muslims than jewsHave I ever ever EVER said I am not vehemently against bronze/iron age dogma?![]()
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
They don't like it when the animal is killed as part of the stunning.
You should kill first, and afterwards hang the carcass. Slaughter is dangerous to the butchers if the animal resists, and it's not going to agree to being dangled upside down willingly., nor do they do it in that order. Am I wrong?
Killing the animals is never going to be pleasant for them, but for instance take the example you gave of the dog you fed food before putting it down and compare it to the practice of letting the animals rest, feed and water them prior to any unpleasant business (be it transport or slaughter) so they are as calm and unsuspecting as possible. Industrial slaughterhouses don't want the animals to realise what is about to hit them, not even when it hits them -- of course reality is not this ideal by a long shot.
Plenty of halal meat comes from industrial slaughterhouses and in the context of industrial slaughter halal is mostly a set of recommendations to implement most of which make a good deal of sense outside of the context of religious beliefs anyway. For example you don't want to try and avoid mixing different types of meat and you want to observe hygiene standards and so on anyway.
HoreTore's link is an excellent read, if only for the cold appraisal of the reality. Also, this one: http://www.grandin.com/
Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 05-06-2014 at 00:08.
- Tellos Athenaios
CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread
“ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.
Here's an educational video Kadagar:
It contains no blood or killing, at least Part 1, don't know about the second part.
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
The only safe way of eating meat is by getting its internal temperature high enough when you cook it.
The rest is just pomp and circumstance.
Yeah, so what about part 2?
Didn't watch it. I did watch a video of a piglet castration without anaesthesia instead and shut it off halfway through because the screaming alone is heart wrenching and the images only make it worse. Of course some of our civilized people in the west have been saying it's not a big deal (apparently they even said the piglets don't feel it) but the fascist EU has banned it by 2018 anyway and it's not necessary to get good meat from male pigs if they are treated properly and not stressed their entire life.
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Yeah... I call BS then.
You cant judge Islamic slaughter from the cozy snuggling before the slaughter that happens at one place, can you?
What an idiotic argument.
I wont link part 2, but it's not hard to find. Absolutely barbaric - 2014 we have more humane methods to kill animals.
Even in part 2 I didn't see a single animal hanging upside down while it had its throat slit, which was one of your main arguments.
You also can't rate western slaughter from the theoretical methods, which often do not really work in practice.
There was even a case in the USA last weekend where they tried to slaughter a human, who ended up being in horrible pain for 45 minutes or so. "Theoretically" it's supposed to be "humane".
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
I remember my ex(with a master in breeding) was furious that the majority of Norwegian farmers continued to carry hens upside down, even when it has been proved beyond doubt that it leads to decreased egg production.
Agriculture is a conservative field, old habits take a long time to die-
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
How do you know what the most humane method is? Do you revive some animals and ask them how much fun their death was on a scale of 1 to 10? When you slit the throat, the brain should run out of oxygen relatively fast and the animal becomes unconscious.
Modern factory slaughter is even worse than your version of halal slaughter, as can be read here: http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/slaughter/
See? These animals are pretty much conscious, they are just paralyzed so they cannot move to evade the blades.Imagine being hung upside down, shocked into paralysis, having your throat cut, then drowned in hot water...while you’re conscious. That’s the stuff of nightmares, and it’s the tragic reality for billions of birds each year. These animals have virtually no protection from the worst slaughter abuses.
And pigs don't fare much better: http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-u...ort-slaughter/
So I'm not sure why you single out halal as inhumane and say western methods are more humane.A typical slaughterhouse kills up to 1,100 pigs every hour. The sheer number of animals killed makes it impossible for them to be given humane, painless deaths. Because of improper stunning, many pigs are alive when they reach the scalding tank, which is intended to soften their skin and remove their hair.
There is even a rather detailed answer on Yahoo answers: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...2054725AAEfmRP
And there are people who say the exact opposite: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.U2q5tIa0PpA
Last edited by Husar; 05-07-2014 at 23:57.
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
I find it somewhat depressing that people appear to be more concerned with the welfare of the food that we consume than the people who make it. Loads of stickers saying: free range eggs, non GMC veg, yet finding a free trade sticker is rare. It's mildly concerning considering the many documentaries we see about people getting screwed for our food, the highlight being that a lot of the money we buy chocolate with goes to ivory coast child slavers.
'A typical slaughterhouse kills up to 1,100 pigs every hour. The sheer number of animals killed makes it impossible for them to be given humane, painless deaths. Because of improper stunning, many pigs are alive when they reach the scalding tank, which is intended to soften their skin and remove their hair.'
Not most are still alive, they all are. It's tragic if they are improperly stunned but most are knocked out.
As for the chickens, they are hanged upside down yes, than they go trough an electrified pool which instantly knocks them out. It all goes really fast.
I have no idea what the most humane method is. We should however strive towards achieving it, no?
Bronze age dogma probably isn't the answer 2014.
Shouldn't this be a more... Scientific debate - rather than religious? If we are looking out for the animals?
Whatever way is the best, I am pretty sure a ban on having the animals unconscious really really REALLY isn't the best standard to set, no?
It's hard to monitor every slaughterhouse, and even harder to monitor every single kill. That's why we need laws to make it as decent as possible. Am I wrong here?
From that perspective, why would it be better to legislate against the animals being unconscious, than allowing it?
When it's time for my dog to go, I sure as hell wont pet him and then slit his throat. Why should I not offer the same care to other animals up for death?
As far as I see it, legislating slaughter methods on grounds of "humane-ness" would be like legislating that all next of kin must have their deceased be frozen in liquid nitrogen and broken up.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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