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Thread: Speaking of Israel...
The remains of the three missing teenagers who were kidnapped 3 weeks ago have been found. 
Praying for the souls of the departed, and comfort for their family. Also praying for cool heads and restraint. Barring that, also praying for the soon-to-be victims of what is likely to follow... a heavy-handed retribution designed to punish, not resolve.
Praying for the souls of the departed, and comfort for their family. Also praying for cool heads and restraint. Barring that, also praying for the soon-to-be victims of what is likely to follow... a heavy-handed retribution designed to punish, not resolve.
Cooler heads will not prevail, more blood will be spilled, peace will never come.
Prayers well placed, and I will echo them.
Hooahguy:
"Never" is a long time, and I pray not lifetimes away in this instance, but this 50-year-old, despite hoping to double that total, does not expect to see it in his lifetime.
Hooahguy:
"Never" is a long time, and I pray not lifetimes away in this instance, but this 50-year-old, despite hoping to double that total, does not expect to see it in his lifetime.
I have lost any hope in a peaceful settlement of this conflict. Just look at the comments people are saying, on both sides. The Israelis are demanding Palestinian blood (preferably of children it seems) and Palestinians are celebrating the murders. Disgusting.
Hit back and hit hard, how obvious do you want things to be. Palestinians cheer for the death of these poor sods, they cheer for 9/11, they cheer for the death of an abducted Israeli soldier and rub up their face with his organs, crazy frenzy. It is what it is so treat it as what it is. Why care if it only makes them angrier, the hate is already well established.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Hit back and hit hard, how obvious do you want things to be. Palestinians cheer for the death of these poor sods, they cheer for 9/11, they cheer for the death of an abducted Israeli soldier and rub up their face with his organs, crazy frenzy. It is what it is so treat it as what it is. Why care if it only makes them angrier, the hate is already well established.
Probably not a good idea to be advocating that a Jewish state, currently accused of recreating the early days of the holocaust against the Palastinians, hit back hard.Hit back and hit hard, how obvious do you want things to be. Palestinians cheer for the death of these poor sods, they cheer for 9/11, they cheer for the death of an abducted Israeli soldier and rub up their face with his organs, crazy frenzy. It is what it is so treat it as what it is. Why care if it only makes them angrier, the hate is already well established.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
I have lost any hope in a peaceful settlement of this conflict. Just look at the comments people are saying, on both sides. The Israelis are demanding Palestinian blood (preferably of children it seems) and Palestinians are celebrating the murders. Disgusting.
I don't know - eventually both sides will get worn out, or more likely the US will lose it's grip and another country will impose peace. In another generation the Holocaust will be merely history, with no living witnesses, and at that point Israel's special standing will drain away and they will be forced to behave like adults.I have lost any hope in a peaceful settlement of this conflict. Just look at the comments people are saying, on both sides. The Israelis are demanding Palestinian blood (preferably of children it seems) and Palestinians are celebrating the murders. Disgusting.
Then the Palestinians will be forced to behave like adults in turn.
Originally Posted by Greyblades:
Probably not a good idea to be advocating that a Jewish state, currently accused of recreating the early days of the holocaust against the Palastinians, hit back hard.
Laughable, in the Hamas own writings it is 100% obvious what they are after for. They don't even pretend they don't want to kill all jews. Kill the vermin whenever you can, whenever you got a reason given it's a gift.Probably not a good idea to be advocating that a Jewish state, currently accused of recreating the early days of the holocaust against the Palastinians, hit back hard.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
I don't know - eventually both sides will get worn out, or more likely the US will lose it's grip and another country will impose peace. In another generation the Holocaust will be merely history, with no living witnesses, and at that point Israel's special standing will drain away and they will be forced to behave like adults.
Then the Palestinians will be forced to behave like adults in turn.
The sense of guilt will last longer than the deaths of those remaining Holocaust survivors. How much longer I am unsure.I don't know - eventually both sides will get worn out, or more likely the US will lose it's grip and another country will impose peace. In another generation the Holocaust will be merely history, with no living witnesses, and at that point Israel's special standing will drain away and they will be forced to behave like adults.
Then the Palestinians will be forced to behave like adults in turn.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Laughable, in the Hamas own writings it is 100% obvious what they are after for. They don't even pretend they don't want to kill all jews. Kill the vermin whenever you can, whenever you got a reason given it's a gift.
You realise you are talking about Humans yes? I would think about rephrasing your tirade a little - you sound much like the preachers you claim to hate...Laughable, in the Hamas own writings it is 100% obvious what they are after for. They don't even pretend they don't want to kill all jews. Kill the vermin whenever you can, whenever you got a reason given it's a gift.
On the matter at hand - sadly I don't think it will ever end until one side is gone - Israel insists on slowly strangling the Palestinian people by striping their land away settlement by settlement and in turn the Palestine people refuse to cast out the Terrorist organisations and instead continue to support them with fervour - it would take both sides to step back and so far neither is overly interested...
Originally Posted by Sir Moody:
You realise you are talking about Humans yes? I would think about rephrasing your tirade a little - you sound much like the preachers you claim to hate...
On the matter at hand - sadly I don't think it will ever end until one side is gone - Israel insists on slowly strangling the Palestinian people by striping their land away settlement by settlement and in turn the Palestine people refuse to cast out the Terrorist organisations and instead continue to support them with fervour - it would take both sides to step back and so far neither is overly interested...
Sure I am talking about humans, but their wellbeing doesn't interest me all that much, live with hate untill you die because of hate. The palestinians are in a pinball-machine because of powers that are bigger than them, sucks. But I don't feel sorry for them, they made their choice, no going back. They cheered when people were jumping out of the WTC because that was a better option than burning alive, they cheer because of these 3 youths were murdered, they cheer for the most horrible things. Not just in Palestina, also in Europe where nobody is taking anyone's land. It's the islam and the islam is nothing more than it is, a sick ideoligy.You realise you are talking about Humans yes? I would think about rephrasing your tirade a little - you sound much like the preachers you claim to hate...
On the matter at hand - sadly I don't think it will ever end until one side is gone - Israel insists on slowly strangling the Palestinian people by striping their land away settlement by settlement and in turn the Palestine people refuse to cast out the Terrorist organisations and instead continue to support them with fervour - it would take both sides to step back and so far neither is overly interested...
While a disturbingly large number of Palestinians have expressed sympathy for the terror attacks, the images from their cheering on 9/11 are pretty ambiguous. they're actually not ambiguous at all, sadly. Additionally, the PNA also condemned the attacks.
I don't know what your point is, Fragony, but I think that your ideas on how to solve the conflict are insane.
I don't know what your point is, Fragony, but I think that your ideas on how to solve the conflict are insane.
Originally Posted by :
On the matter at hand - sadly I don't think it will ever end until one side is gone - Israel insists on slowly strangling the Palestinian people by striping their land away settlement by settlement and in turn the Palestine people refuse to cast out the Terrorist organisations and instead continue to support them with fervour - it would take both sides to step back and so far neither is overly interested...
I think Israel should initiate some kind of program to fully integrate Palestine into Israel and fully integrate Palestinian Arabs into Israel as equal members of society. I'm still a bit lost on the specifics though.On the matter at hand - sadly I don't think it will ever end until one side is gone - Israel insists on slowly strangling the Palestinian people by striping their land away settlement by settlement and in turn the Palestine people refuse to cast out the Terrorist organisations and instead continue to support them with fervour - it would take both sides to step back and so far neither is overly interested...
Originally Posted by Hax:
I think Israel should initiate some kind of program to fully integrate Palestine into Israel and fully integrate Palestinian Arabs into Israel as equal members of society. I'm still a bit lost on the specifics though.
Palestine and the Diaspora outnumber the 'Jews' in Israel, so they do not want to integrate option due to becoming a minority within the state. If the numbers were the other way around, it would have worked better.I think Israel should initiate some kind of program to fully integrate Palestine into Israel and fully integrate Palestinian Arabs into Israel as equal members of society. I'm still a bit lost on the specifics though.
Alternative solution would be the integration of the diaspora within Jordan properly opposed to refugee status, considering Jordan is pretty much ethnic palestinian in makeup then work with some solution as to the lands within the bloc as you are suggesting.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
The sense of guilt will last longer than the deaths of those remaining Holocaust survivors. How much longer I am unsure.
A Jewish friend of mine talked about visiting the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, and for Germans under thirty the guilt is already mostly gone. Increasingly, the camp guards etc. who committed the Holocaust are also fading from memory, and in another 25 years they will be the great-grandfathers of the ruling class rather than the grandfathers.The sense of guilt will last longer than the deaths of those remaining Holocaust survivors. How much longer I am unsure.
The US tends towards memorialism more than Europe, so perhaps it's more of a thing over there but here's we're returning to "business as usual" to the extent that during the financial crash the term "Anglo-Saxon banker" was declared with a nod and a wink, and a candidate for London Mayor can be openly anti-Semitic without being pilloried.
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Palestine and the Diaspora outnumber the 'Jews' in Israel, so they do not want to integrate option due to becoming a minority within the state. If the numbers were the other way around, it would have worked better.
Alternative solution would be the integration of the diaspora within Jordan properly opposed to refugee status, considering Jordan is pretty much ethnic palestinian in makeup then work with some solution as to the lands within the bloc as you are suggesting.
Maybe it's time for the Israelis to lump it? The commitment to a "Jewish Homeland" was never intended to produce a soverign state, and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.Palestine and the Diaspora outnumber the 'Jews' in Israel, so they do not want to integrate option due to becoming a minority within the state. If the numbers were the other way around, it would have worked better.
Alternative solution would be the integration of the diaspora within Jordan properly opposed to refugee status, considering Jordan is pretty much ethnic palestinian in makeup then work with some solution as to the lands within the bloc as you are suggesting.
War is war. Both sides attack civilians and should expect nothing less in return.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
A Jewish friend of mine talked about visiting the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, and for Germans under thirty the guilt is already mostly gone. Increasingly, the camp guards etc. who committed the Holocaust are also fading from memory, and in another 25 years they will be the great-grandfathers of the ruling class rather than the grandfathers.
The US tends towards memorialism more than Europe, so perhaps it's more of a thing over there but here's we're returning to "business as usual" to the extent that during the financial crash the term "Anglo-Saxon banker" was declared with a nod and a wink, and a candidate for London Mayor can be openly anti-Semitic without being pilloried.
Maybe it's time for the Israelis to lump it? The commitment to a "Jewish Homeland" was never intended to produce a soverign state, and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.
I wish we'd just keep the whole region as isolated from us as possible, instead of keeping "key interests" there and supporting this state or that state. Other than the oil in the oil states, there is nothing of interest there that we don't already have within the EU. If they want to kill each other, rather than wring our hands over how it never ends, we should just leave them to it. If there is any legal way possible, I'd strip anyone who enters that region of UK citizenship. That guy whose son appeared in Syria got it right. His son was a traitor to his country. Similarly with that British-Jewish guy a few years back who harped endlessly on about doing aaliyah and joining the Israeli army. If they identify with an identity other than British, wash our hands of them.A Jewish friend of mine talked about visiting the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin, and for Germans under thirty the guilt is already mostly gone. Increasingly, the camp guards etc. who committed the Holocaust are also fading from memory, and in another 25 years they will be the great-grandfathers of the ruling class rather than the grandfathers.
The US tends towards memorialism more than Europe, so perhaps it's more of a thing over there but here's we're returning to "business as usual" to the extent that during the financial crash the term "Anglo-Saxon banker" was declared with a nod and a wink, and a candidate for London Mayor can be openly anti-Semitic without being pilloried.
Maybe it's time for the Israelis to lump it? The commitment to a "Jewish Homeland" was never intended to produce a soverign state, and that state has frankly become an embarrassment to the West.
Originally Posted by Pannonian:
Similarly with that British-Jewish guy a few years back who harped endlessly on about doing aaliyah and joining the Israeli army. If they identify with an identity other than British, wash our hands of them.
Now you know how I feel about all those twats who serve in the IDF then come back to the US and live the rest of their lives. I dont mind if you want to move to Israel and serve, just dont bother coming back and living here if you feel so strongly about defending your "home."Similarly with that British-Jewish guy a few years back who harped endlessly on about doing aaliyah and joining the Israeli army. If they identify with an identity other than British, wash our hands of them.
'I don't know what your point is, Fragony, but I think that your ideas on how to solve the conflict are insane.'
I didn't mention any ideas on how to solve the conflict Haxie, I just said that I don't feel sorry for the Palestinians. They are already treated better than they deserve. They get more aid than any people in the world. If it's about their homeland it's already there, it's called Libanon. The Palestinians are invented they don't exist, it's a refugee camp. Got any landmarks of a civilisation to show me or is it just one big township. Hamas is very clear about what they want. PLO is less loud bu they can't be trusted either.
I didn't mention any ideas on how to solve the conflict Haxie, I just said that I don't feel sorry for the Palestinians. They are already treated better than they deserve. They get more aid than any people in the world. If it's about their homeland it's already there, it's called Libanon. The Palestinians are invented they don't exist, it's a refugee camp. Got any landmarks of a civilisation to show me or is it just one big township. Hamas is very clear about what they want. PLO is less loud bu they can't be trusted either.
To be fair, they aren't sure if it was a revenge killing. Either way, pretty despicable.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
To be fair, they aren't sure if it was a revenge killing. Either way, pretty despicable.
To be fair, they aren't sure those three boys were killed by Hamas.To be fair, they aren't sure if it was a revenge killing. Either way, pretty despicable.
Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago there Hamas got blamed for a dead boy and it turned out to be just a regular domestic murder?
Fair enough.
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla:
To be fair, they aren't sure those three boys were killed by Hamas.
Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago there Hamas got blamed for a dead boy and it turned out to be just a regular domestic murder?
Well some Hamas leaders did praise the episode, albeit without claiming specific "credit" such as it is.To be fair, they aren't sure those three boys were killed by Hamas.
Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago there Hamas got blamed for a dead boy and it turned out to be just a regular domestic murder?
Originally Posted by Hax:
I think Israel should initiate some kind of program to fully integrate Palestine into Israel and fully integrate Palestinian Arabs into Israel as equal members of society. I'm still a bit lost on the specifics though.
And I think everyone should get a unicorn for free...I think Israel should initiate some kind of program to fully integrate Palestine into Israel and fully integrate Palestinian Arabs into Israel as equal members of society. I'm still a bit lost on the specifics though.
I respect your solution, but the odds of it happening in this century is extremely bad, to say the least.
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
And I think everyone should get a unicorn for free...
Lol you forgot the rainbow, shame on youAnd I think everyone should get a unicorn for free...
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
Fair enough.
Which is not to say that it wasn't an ethnically or politically motivated killing - but I don't see any suspects as yet.Fair enough.
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh:
Well some Hamas leaders did praise the episode, albeit without claiming specific "credit" such as it is.
I'm sure they did - but Israel has no proof and has already begun blowing up houses just for kicks.Well some Hamas leaders did praise the episode, albeit without claiming specific "credit" such as it is.
It's not hard to see why these guys think the only good Jew is a dead Jew, given that the vast majority of Jews they meet want to kill them and actively try to do so.
Originally Posted by Hooahguy:
Now you know how I feel about all those twats who serve in the IDF then come back to the US and live the rest of their lives. I dont mind if you want to move to Israel and serve, just dont bother coming back and living here if you feel so strongly about defending your "home."
Sounds familiar, same sort of thing that happened with american irish and the IRA.Now you know how I feel about all those twats who serve in the IDF then come back to the US and live the rest of their lives. I dont mind if you want to move to Israel and serve, just dont bother coming back and living here if you feel so strongly about defending your "home."
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#
Sad, really sad.http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#
Yeah, it's terrible.http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.602767#
Racism is pretty common, though, and as ugly as Israel can be we need to keep it in context.
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