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  1. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who won WWII?

    Stating facts without interpreting them (or interpreting them incorrectly) and without putting them in a broader context is misleading.
    Really? I'm pretty sure my interpretation of how Soviet offensives in 1943-44 would have gone down without LL was a 'broader context'.

    which means that in 1943 it represented 10% at one point
    And I'm the one interpreting data incorrectly?

    [From Accounting for War, Table 6.5]

    The % of LL included in budget outlays for the defense commissariat from Jan 1942-Dec 1944:

    In 1942 LL accounted for 2.7% of all Soviet budget outlays; in 1943 it was 7.5%; and in 1944 it was 13.2%.

    As to the figures you cited----source please.

    Furthermore, bulk of the total LL aid arrived after the war was decided.
    That's your opinion and you certainly are entitled to it. But exactly when did the conflict on the Eastern Front become "decided"? After Stalingrad? Kursk? Bagration?

    You simply couldn't make a T34 in a truck factory
    I never said that. What I did say is that LL freed up Soviet resources (and the workers in the factories are considered a resource) to allocate in other critical places other than what they were receiving through LL. And in misreading what I said, you missed the biggest point of all....the Soviet economy was on the verge of collapse by mid-1942 and it was in the agricultural sector where the danger lay. LL allowed Gosplan to begin to allocate funds to the civilian sector in 1943 for the first time since the war began, and thereby avert a possible revolt. Most people who like to toss out LL numbers also fail to realize that of all the total LL (in terms of dollar value), 25 cents of every $ went directly to the Soviet defense effort, and 75 cents went for dual purpose items like communications, food stuffs, tool & die machinery (these can be used to build farm tractors as well as tanks), etc.

    Soviet supplied USA with millions of tones of rare materials USA needed.
    Some quantities are known. More than 300,000 tones of chrome and 32,000 tones of manganese ore, in addition to other materials, like wood and gold. It's estimated roughly at being about 5-10% worth of LL.
    Without a source, this is just blowing smoke in the wind.

    [From Table J4 Accounting for War]

    Soviet exports to the United States 1941-1944, in millions of $ [and rather than cite the entire list, where the largest single item is classified as Animal Products (inedible)---82% of items sent in 1941; 76% in 1942; 66% in 1943; and 73% in 1944, I'll just use the non-ferrous metals line]

    In 1941, non-ferrous exports to the US amounted to 0.6 million $ (in 1937 dollars) or 2% of all exports; in 1942 it was 2.4 million or 9.7%; in 1943 it was 5.7 million or 19%; and in 1944 it was 8 million or 16%.

    Total reverse LL amounted to 133.4 million $ US for the years 1941-44. The entire LL value (both US and British) amounted to 10.67 billion from the US and 1.26 billion for the British (converted to US $) for a total of 11.93 billion $ US. Now the last time I checked my math, that is nowhere near "5-10%" of the LL value imported (doing the math gives 1.1%)

    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 07-02-2014 at 16:40.
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