Restless crowns: forging empires [Late era -Skip a few]

[yuonyuon]

this is pure bullshit , Egyptians are paying to the turks for their economy and turks bought all the mercenaries and destroy Egypt . this is not low, is very low, Egyptians are worst than moors . i can t do much since he has no armies or spies , and money are gone.

[Emproment]

this is pure bullshit , Egyptians are paying to the turks for their economy and turks bought all the mercenaries and destroy Egypt . this is not low, is very low, Egyptians are worst than moors . i can t do much since he has no armies or spies , and money are gone.

This is pure bullshit??

No, this is TOTALWAR!

:)

[sonnet]

this is pure bullshit , Egyptians are paying to the turks for their economy and turks bought all the mercenaries and destroy Egypt . this is not low, is very low, Egyptians are worst than moors . i can t do much since he has no armies or spies , and money are gone.

Egyptians are not paying anyone. Stop spreading lies. 5k is all (on turn 2, a very little sum for a settlement) it was paid because I allowed Egypt to take it.
No armies and no money: they can't be both true, if a faction has no armies then it's making money. And everybody can check Egypt
started with lots of money.
Moreover in a single ss of the one I posted there were 3 armies (2 on lands and on in a ship).
Moreover lying seems to be a habit for you: just 2 hours ago you wrote this..

i feel like i made a mistake playing with you . i always wanted a good challenge and respected you skils (and your management skils too) but this is way to wrong and is not because i my actions . i looked at the turns and it looks like you may be kick off by durex . your attack is too light .

.

It seems that from now on ,I will ignore what you says as someone suggested. You don't mean anything you write.
In any case I made a peace offer to the Fatimids: if you want to save the faction it's a good offer. If you want to play it to serve your purpose, then it's up to your ethic.

[Tonno]

EDIT: I think yuon's idea for a fine to those who break NAP is a good addition to the rules.

That's a straight up bad idea. It removes a lot from game play, and blah blah blah, since most don't boder to read.

@sonnet: All I read is "blah blah blah I'm not happy."

No rules were broken were they? Then what is there to complain about? Yuon did an awfully, lawfully turn move.

But if you want to change the rules, then do so, so punishment can be dealt.

EDIT: And this is coming from someone who is rooting for the Moors, to be sure. I want to see yuon punished, too, but the fact is he did nothing wrong but lie. Lying is not against the rules.

@Emproment
To make it clear, rules are not everything. You see there's an exploit I used once, twice a bit more times over that. When your faction is turned AI and then back to human, or something like that. You can win battles by just leaveing out of them. I won with 300 men a full stack that was defending a castle, with 1 man lost.
I didn't broke any rules there, I exploited the situation I was given. I didn't play fair (yes moral, that dirty word)

What sonnet showed, to everyone should look like a pure exploit of the moors situation, it's not fair for him to do that. + if I am not misstaken I didn't saw any arguments against that from Castile.
For me if admin decides to punish or remove Castile I will not oppose. (that is, if Castile breaks the NAP)
It is gray area, but still, it's just over the top.

[Emproment]

That's a straight up bad idea. It removes a lot from game play, and blah blah blah, since most don't boder to read.



@Emproment
To make it clear, rules are not everything. You see there's an exploit I used once, twice a bit more times over that. When you faction is turned AI and then back to human, or something like that. You can win battles by just leaveing out of them. I won with 300 men a full stack that was defending a castle, with 1 man lost.
I didn't broke any rules there, I exploited the situation I was given. I didn't play fair (yes moral, that dirty word)

What sonnet showed, to everyone should look like a pure exploit of the moors situation, it's not fair for him to do that. + if I am not misstaken I didn't saw any arguments against that from Castile.
For me if admin decides to punish or remove Castile I will not oppose. (that is, if Castile breaks the NAP)
It is gray area, but still, it's just over the top.

@Tonno It clearly states in the rules that no exploits are to be used.

I have asked over and over to @sonnet "Have any rules been broken?" And if there were no rules broken, "Can the rules be amended?"

Either no one knows the answer, or no one cares to answer.

[sonnet]

@Tonno It clearly states in the rules that no exploits are to be used.

I have asked over and over to @sonnet "Have any rules been broken?" And if there were no rules broken, "Can the rules be amended?"

Either no one knows the answer, or no one cares to answer.

@Emproment : for anything outside the specific rules , there's the admin to decide what's an exploit and what's not.
Because no matter how many rules I insert in, there will always be someone who can find a loopholes or something not mentioned in the rules.
Rules are for the most common situations. For a situation like this one there's the admin.
But it was important to hear also everyone's opinion.

[yuonyuon]

@Tonno It clearly states in the rules that no exploits are to be used.

I have asked over and over to @sonnet "Have any rules been broken?" And if there were no rules broken, "Can the rules be amended?"

Either no one knows the answer, or no one cares to answer.

dear , legourou , it s just a propaganda to cover his actions against Egypt that's all.

by the way i finish the Egypt turn , looks like there are some good chances .

[yuonyuon]

I think invasion was cut off . next turn Egypt will gain the upper hand

[sonnet]

I think invasion was cut off . next turn Egypt will gain the upper hand

you have only 10 minutes to post England's save.
Just for once, try to do what you say:

when a player is not available he should be subbed by his subber in the time limit , but when his time expired should be skipped or played quick in a defensive way. that should be a rule .

you subbed in aggressive way , and was turn 3 you could take cities . does an t mater if that catapult was there from turn 1 the rule is clear about those 2 turns of NAP.

And keep in mind that @Emproment has an important turn too.
So don't take his time. Post the save, and the ss and your comments can come later.
@yuonyuon
Also about the ss: the ss with the battle's result it's the most important (for both land and naval battles) and you need to show the army composition. So that in case there's something suspicious the admin can easily check.

[yuonyuon]

you have only 10 minutes to post England's save.
Just for once, try to do what you say:

And keep in mind that Emproment has an important turn too.
So don't take his time. Post the save, and the ss and your comments can come later.
@yuonyuon
Also about the ss: the ss with the battle's result it's the most important and you need to show the army composition. So that in case there's something suspicious the admin can easily check.

I already talked with Emproment so we are good.

Emproment give me permission to use from his time so . i think is no problem here.

edit: anything else. ?? should i destroy moors??

[sonnet]

I already talked with Emproment so we are good.

Emproment give me permission to use from his time so . i think is no problem here.

And @Emproment will still play within his time?

[sonnet]

.

edit: anything else. ?? should i destroy moors??

I told you to not break the NAP you requested, after launching your accusations of subbing the faction unfairly if i attacked your armies (Castille) and you kept swearing that not attacking your armies but rather signing the NAP, was the best deal for the absent player who couldn't see his turns.
So if you break the NAP you requested, you do that at your own risk.
I contacted the admin about it. If the admin find your behavior unfair and an exploit, as we won't replay those turns,
you should be ready to whatever punishment the admin sees fit.

[Mithridate]

@sonnet

May want to focus more on doing things properly over beating a dead horse here, check TWC.

[yuonyuon]

moors destroyed >:)))


edit : ups i meant Aragon. my bad !

yeah i definitely will keep my NAP . i m not a coward . i will earn my position like i said .

[Nightbringer]

First of all, I want everyone to take a step back for a second and remember that this is a game. A fun and competitive game we can all get pretty heated about, but if this keeps slipping into the direction of personal out of game attacks, then administrative action will be taken against offending persons.

The Org Rules
Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. Posting of copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you or by The Org, is discouraged. The Org expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs, or insults -- addressed to either an individual or a group -- is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.

As to the situation at hand, the game administrators are examining things to see what action should be taken, if any. Any actions taken on this account will almost certainly be confined within the game itself. I highly doubt we are going to ask anyone to leave the forum over this. That said, please keep the above Org Rules in mind. Further personal out of game attacks will not be tolerated. (e.g., its ok to say a person is lying in the game, but not that they are a lier in general)

Finally, does anyone know when EBS will be able to return?

[Emproment]

HRE is next.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Fleet fights.

[yuonyuon]

That's a straight up bad idea. It removes a lot from game play, and blah blah blah, since most don't boder to read.



@Emproment
To make it clear, rules are not everything. You see there's an exploit I used once, twice a bit more times over that. When your faction is turned AI and then back to human, or something like that. You can win battles by just leaveing out of them. I won with 300 men a full stack that was defending a castle, with 1 man lost.
I didn't broke any rules there, I exploited the situation I was given. I didn't play fair (yes moral, that dirty word)

What sonnet showed, to everyone should look like a pure exploit of the moors situation, it's not fair for him to do that. + if I am not misstaken I didn't saw any arguments against that from Castile.
For me if admin decides to punish or remove Castile I will not oppose. (that is, if Castile breaks the NAP)
It is gray area, but still, it's just over the top.

So you guys sided with sonnet on his propaganda .what a mockery of HS this has become . everybody break their NAP but i m risking to be kick off if i do . why , because invicta say so .... hmmm ..

i get a message from durex he didn t want to continue . the situation is awful . he didn t know who is facing with and this betrayal was too much . also i don t want to sub Egypt anymore , so i think he is already defeated without spies and not a even a stack(2 stacks was marching to help HRE near Rhodes) the main land . not even siege weapons . the war is lost . we can say that invicta wins this HS . congratulations !!!!

i m not a lair , everything i wrote there is true.

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

So you guys sided with sonnet on his propaganda .what a mockery of HS this has become . everybody break their NAP but i m risking to be kick off if i do . why , because invicta say so .... hmmm ..

i get a message from durex he didn t want to continue . the situation is awful . he didn t know who is facing with and this betrayal was too much . also i don t want to sub Egypt anymore , so i think he is already defeated without spies and not a even a stack(2 stacks was marching to help HRE near Rhodes) the main land . not even siege weapons . the war is lost . we can say that invicta wins this HS . congratulations !!!!

i m not a lair , everything i wrote there is true.

Why should some1 be kicked because he broke a NAP? lol

Im tired of this bad loser attitude, when things dont go your way you start complaining and then leave. Why join this in the first place?

[yuonyuon]

Why should some1 be kicked because he broke a NAP? lol

Im tired of this bad loser attitude, when things dont go your way you start complaining and then leave. Why join this in the first place?

why you posted if you don t have an opinion , in the first place .
trust me i have seen enough , crap , i rather kick myself out of this.

[Core-i7-inside]

This is what happens when you side with HRE. Goodbye sultan.

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

why you posted if you don t have an opinion , in the first place .
trust me i have seen enough , crap , i rather kick myself out of this.

Are you reading what others said around here? I even backed you up yesterday saying not to kick you.

Your posts dont make sense at all, you said that you re not gonna keep your 5 turn nap and now you re complaining that others dont keep their word..

[yuonyuon]

Are you reading what others said around here? I even backed you up yesterday saying not to kick you.

Your posts dont make sense at all, you said that you re not gonna keep your 5 turn nap and now you re complaining that others dont keep their word..

as you can see i always keep my word . i just wanted to see how much this will escalate .because it happens in the past .player get banned in TWC for this kind of propaganda. these threats are not welcomed by me as i always look to play in a fair HS . i have no problem with Backstabbing that it part of the game . but i m threaten if i broke a NAP by a player . and other are supporting this . ..i don t like that ...in matter a fact i hate that .
this is how invicta win(at least gets in the first place) all HS in TWC and i can prove it . full propaganda .backstabbing or gang up . and when a player might get advantage over him . he start complaining and make everything he can to remove him (this is the case)

he can write a 10 walls of response i don care anymore , now i know how it works . i dont like that .

if admin is here and can understand this is a personal threat and it is OOC . that influence all this game in his Advantage

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

as you can see i always keep my word . i just wanted to see how much this will escalate .because it happens in the past .player get banned in TWC for this kind of propaganda. these threats are not welcomed by me as i always look to play in a fair HS . i have no problem with Backstabbing that it part of the game . but i m threaten if i broke a NAP by a player . and other are supporting this . ..i don t like that ...in matter a fact i hate that .
this is how invicta win(at least gets in the first place) all HS in TWC and i can prove it . full propaganda .backstabbing or gang up . and when a player might get advantage over him . he start complaining and make everything he can to remove him (this is the case)

he can write a 10 walls of response i don care anymore , now i know how it works . i dont like that .

if admin is here and can understand this is a personal threat and it is OOC . that influence all this game in his Advantage

Here was a different case because ebs PC was broken and he couldnt see what was happening..
I dont see what you will accomplish if you leave the hotseat.

[Tonno]

Had problems loading stuff up, it should work properly.

Spent to much time allready, some rp later

[yuonyuon]

Here was a different case because ebs PC was broken and he couldnt see what was happening..
I dont see what you will accomplish if you leave the hotseat.

I don t give a damn about other players real problems are. i mean who cares ?. i just care if you are here

So i have to act in a way that suits to other players because someone have real life problems . if that is true then this discussion in over .

i attacked moors , i give then chance for peace .i can broke the deal . i can destroy them , where is the rule break????

anyway i talk with the admin about this garbage solution

[yuonyuon]

-Diplomatic deals and loss of reputation: you can accuse of betrayal only when a player betrays an official deal. Deals made in secrecy, cannot be mentioned in the thread. So basically if you make a deal in secrecy with another faction, and that faction betrays you,
you can't denounce him in public. This way we can create a big distinction between official and shady diplomacy. If you break this rule, you'll be subject to a fine of 10k minimum , and the same amount will be given to the player whom reputation has been damaged.

[Myth]

I want to remind everyone that admin action is preferably called for in a PM. This is the best way to avoid drama. And I don't want drama on these forums.

Invicta, you can't threaten with admin actions because I and Nightbringer will decide if any actions at all are necessary. In this situation I see no apparent rule breaking. yuonyuon played a dirty diplomatic game and came on top. It's up to you and the rest of the players to make of it what you will and take actions in game.

He also seems to know you and he played the honour/integrity card, knowing you would accept the nap. It seems to me that this NAP was in Castille's best interests. IMO you or whomever else subbed the Moors should have made every effort to crush the Spanish as they are the aggressor. This attack was pretty obvious as they couldn't afford to sit around with all their armies as they didn't have enough income to sustain them.

I suggest that everyone cools it and continues playing. Backstabs happen, and this is a classic backstab. Also, I think that if a faction has to be subbed for more than 5 consecutive turns it's best to just hand it over to a new player or turn it AI. There is no point in such lengthily periods of subbing.

If everyone agrees to change a rule (let's say a fine of 1000 x the offending faction's number of settlements if a NAP is broken) then we can change the rule. I am a bit reluctant to issue out retroactive punishment, because this sets a precedent. If a rule is broken 40 turns into a game, then someone will remmber another guy breaking it on turn 5. What are we to do then? IMO a rule is set and has to be followed from then on. If yuonyuon knew he would be fined thousands of gold maybe he wouldn't have attacked. This is a game of calculating risk vs reward.

[yuonyuon]

. If yuonyuon knew he would be fined thousands of gold maybe he wouldn't have attacked.

i never had NAP with moors until now , after i attacked them , so still i didn t break any rule or NAP

[Tonno]

If everyone agrees to change a rule (let's say a fine of 1000 x the offending faction's number of settlements if a NAP is broken) then we can change the rule.

I disagree with adding this rule into the game.

[Core-i7-inside]

I disagree with adding this rule into the game.

It's not like I am a betrayal or something, but I disagree with this rule too. :P

It was my mistake leaving Venice no garrison Kaiser, we the Venetian lost our serene doge. We will not forget this. You will pay for what you did to us today. New Doge election will begin soon, justice shall be done!