Restless crowns: forging empires [Late era -Skip a few]

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

Would anyone be fine if Tonno takes Egypt and keeps playing HRE until one faction between the 2 dies?
If everyone agrees, and has nothing against it, we can keep moving.
Most important answers are from @Jiub @Gaius Octavius Caesar and @Core-i7-inside as they're the ones at war with HRE.
This way no one gets free meal and at the same time you'll keep fighting the same guy.

Im ok with it. But Egypt may atack Venice cuz of his war with HRE and thats not right.

[Makrell]

I dont think it is a good move, none of those wo factions are clear diers. Both may survive.

[sonnet]

I dont think it is a good move, none of those wo factions are clear diers. Both may survive.

Indeed what I mostly needed to know was if Jiub Gaius and Core-i7 planned to finish the job. @Gaius Octavius Caesar : you're right

I came up with a better idea (maybe): Emproment may inherit the HRE empire (so he'll manage 2 factions).
This is good because:
1- The 2 factions are already in the same war.
2-The 2 factions comes one after the other (so no problem of playing 4 times a week).
3-The 2 factions right now are not very strong, so even owning 2 shouldn't be much of a problem.

But if we go that way, we should let him free (if he has the chance) to eventually make peace deals (for instance if at one point the coalition against him offers him to let him keep England in exchange for the Imperial lands would you object?) as he sees fit.
It'll be really like him owning 2 factions, and not just subbing one. Unless you want to opt for him just subbing HRE

[Mithridate]

Three persons you mentioned are KNOW cheaters and exploiters, if a new guy came to the HSing, and he said something against those three, I tell you now, I would side with him (that is before any arguments are made).

Whom are the three and why is it relevant?

I once again urge you all to hold your horses and let Myth or NB respond to this over running ahead of yourselves again.

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

Indeed what I mostly needed to know was if Jiub Gaius and Core-i7 planned to finish the job. @Gaius Octavius Caesar : you're right

I came up with a better idea (maybe): Emproment may inherit the HRE empire (so he'll manage 2 factions).
This is good because:
1- The 2 factions are already in the same war.
2-The 2 factions comes one after the other (so no problem of playing 4 times a week).
3-The 2 factions right now are not very strong, so even owning 2 shouldn't be much of a problem.

But if we go that way, we should let him free (if he has the chance) to eventually make peace deals (for instance if at one point the coalition against him offers him to let him keep England in exchange for the Imperial lands would you object?) as he sees fit.
It'll be really like him owning 2 factions, and not just subbing one. Unless you want to opt for him just subbing HRE

This sounds better. Lets see what @Jiub thinks about it because he s in the 1st line against HRE - England.

[Core-i7-inside]

what's going on here? can you summarize it?

[Tonno]

what's going on here? can you summarize it?

Read just last two pages, it's not much as it seems.

[Core-i7-inside]

TBH, HRE is doing OK. I'm completely bankrupt and it seems Hungary will not help me soon. Maybe we can have a deal? dear emperor.

[Jiub]

You guys should really not rely on me actively respond to all of my mentions. There's a lot to read and no time to read it.
TL:DR alert!

I'm like, whatever, I don't care anymore. I'm trying really hard to stay out of this. I dislike how everything's devolved into this long stubborn debate.
I'm asking you to just pm me when my turn comes up. I don't give a rat's ass who's who - player/faction.

[Tonno]

TBH, HRE is doing OK. I'm completely bankrupt and it seems Hungary will not help me soon. Maybe we can have a deal? dear emperor.

Well the deal would be: we should consider letting extrmination as a option for every war but the Holy war, that would put a lot of real pacts and propostions, and put a bit of fear into ppls minds.
Lame jokes asaid.
No deals/offers/propositions I'm gona make with you.

TL:DR alert!

That's what Dawkins said when he was reading Summa. :D

[Core-i7-inside]

Well the deal would be: we should consider letting extrmination as a option for every war but the Holy war, that would put a lot of real pacts and propostions, and put a bit of fear into ppls minds.
Lame jokes asaid.
No deals/offers/propositions I'm gona make with you.

You'll regret this emperor.

[Tonno]

You'll regret this emperor.

You're a funny guy Sally. That's why I'm gona kill you last.

[Auran]

I've been reading some of the rules, I don't very much agree with them, at all. They seem to be based on one or a few people's sense of justice, and some of them certainly don't agree with me. For example, one says that if I have an NAP with a faction, and he attacks my ally, I can't directly break and and consider it an act of aggression. But is it not?

He attacks my ally, that is an aggression towards me, directly or indirectly depending on how close I am to that ally. Maybe that ally is keeping me alive by defending me, but in any case such thing are clear, and too many rules cause confusion.

In any case I agree with the time schedules. So i'll wait for my save.

[sonnet]

I've been reading some of the rules, I don't very much agree with them, at all. They seem to be based on one or a few people's sense of justice, and some of them certainly don't agree with me. For example, one says that if I have an NAP with a faction, and he attacks my ally, I can't directly break and and consider it an act of aggression. But is it not?

He attacks my ally, that is an aggression towards me, directly or indirectly depending on how close I am to that ally. Maybe that ally is keeping me alive by defending me, but in any case such thing are clear, and too many rules cause confusion.

In any case I agree with the time schedules. So i'll wait for my save.

@Auran the rules are only the ones in the 1 post of the thread. The situation you're referring to, is about the reputation's rules.
They're not really rules (as they do not have any effects other than seeing your name written in the list).So you don't have too respect them.
And when you make a deal , as long as your clear on your terms and you make it official (the side-terms can remain secret or not public),
you won't have problem with it. For instance in the case you mentioned: you can sign a NAP with a faction, specifying that if one of your allied
is attacked, you'll feel released by any obligations of respecting the NAP immediately (France did that with the Turks).

If you don't specify that, than you'll need to (to not end up in the unreliable player's list )give the other faction a warning of 3 turns to 'honorably' break the nap.
But all in all, as said you don't have to necessarily respect those 'rules', as there's no direct consequence for it.
Venice broke it first, and its allies still stayed on his side.

[Myth]

It seems most people here didn't indend to play a hotseat. They intended to bicker and bring in old drama from the TWC. I have asked several times for players to ignore their ego and continue playing a Med 2 hotseat, but I have been ignored.

I asked for everyone to keep it to PM and yet more drama sprung up in this thread.

I owe you guys an explanation to my haphazard posting: I have been away on "vacation" meaning I had work outside of work. It culminated with a two day move to a new flat whcih I had to do all on my own. For this reason I could only reed PMs and the thread and I tried taking people at their word which was not the right thing to as an admin to the game.

I however, didn't agree to do investigative work every day to just to be able to reply to the thread when I took on the role as game admin. For example, investingating now if Invicta indeed is right or wrong about Dur3x and about his save times. I see replies here about who posted what on the TWC, timetables, secreenshots of PMs. And this game is only a few turns in.

I asked for a focus on the Med 2 hotseat, instead the drama continued. And before any of you think that the "other guys" are at fault - no. Both parties are.

I've fudged the .org rules here in the Throne Room to keep people cool headed and try and make this into an acutal hotsetat. Believe me, in other sections the infractions would have started flying long ago.

So now half of the players are quitting because Invicta got extra time and played a "perfect turn"? Choosing to ignore my ruling? Even though you actually know my ruling meant to simply speed up the game and bury the drama so far? Nightbringer's idea for a vote worked too, except that this can't ever be a democracy, because we have two factions of posters who basically hate each other. I can't actually wrap my head around why people try to play a game together if they dislike each other so much.

Here are my proposals:

I will continue to admin this game for you under the condition that NO previous drama unrelated to the game is broguht up and that my decisions are respected.

In fact, If I see more off-topic arguments I will just delete them. And this time I'm serious.

Replay the game from Invicta's turn but everyone will get a flat amount of time to finish their turn. Perhaps even a day or more. So yes, this will slow the game down, but you guys wasted several days in arguments anyway, and this will allow for everyone to get a "perfect turn" as described.

If you want you can simply restart from the first save.

From now on however, I don't want to be involved in old TWC drama. I don't want people trying to mislead me or Nightbringer via PMs. And no one will be doing backseat moderating. We go by the .org rules now.

Oh, and the next time I have to edit a curse word out, I'm giving an infraction. I've been far too leneint with you guys and it got us nowhere.

Oh, and welcome @Auran

[Tonno]

Oh Myth... you could have kept it simple and said Tonno was right.
Cheers mate!

MAP UPDATE NEEDED!
Or we gona have 2 turns dely?
Show how I #rekt France and Venice.

[Myth]

No one is right. Not even me, since I didn't do a 4 hour investigation from comparing post times and PMs from my phone and instead chose to sleep after moving furniture for a whole day. The lack of said investigation lead to a mess because people think I'm playing favorites.

Dur3x didn't pop up in the thread to dispute the claims that he is leaving the game. This almost lead me to give Nightbringer the go-ahead to clear the save. This would have made an entire different mess. Invicta was waiting for the cleared saves. This delayed his turn. Obviously NOBODY likes to be subbed if they can post their actual save.

As I explained in PMs - I want people to play their own turns. I would always prefer a save from the original owner rather than a subbed turn, even if this means a delay or bending the rules.

Invicta has behaved very autocratically in this thread and I understand that both parties have some serious drama from the past. He did however accept both my decisions to restore Egypt's stack as well as not penalize Spain for attacking the Moors. He didn't like it for sure, but he accepted it.

But now the other 3 players don't like my decision and leave because I want to give everyone an equal chance to play their turn themselves even if we have a temporary slowing of the game. This is also what Nightbriner said - let's pull the game out of this muck and from then on we go by the rules of posting times and subbing and hopefully no more mishaps will occur.

[Auran]

I believe my turn will expire in 2 hours. I will need an extension of a few more hours after that. I am really busy this day, but I will try to find some time for my turn.

Thanks.

[Jiub]

I believe my turn will expire in 2 hours. I will need an extension of a few more hours after that. I am really busy this day, but I will try to find some time for my turn.

Thanks.

Mate, I don't think you're getting how this HS works.
This hs has no such thing as extensions, else the whole schedule will not work.

[sonnet]

Mate, I don't think you're getting how this HS works.
This hs has no such thing as extensions, else the whole schedule will not work.

He has anyway 4 more hours (I gave him wrong hours as I made a bit of confusion).
I'll modify the timetable anyway, cutting 2 hours from my turn (so 06:00-10:00, @Tonno could get 10:00-15:00, and @Auran will get 15:00-23:00, which should facilitate him in having his turns done -the hours are referred to the time in London).

I'm still hoping to find a replacement for Kwarezm. If anyone knows someone available let me know. Hours to play are 00:00-06:00.

[sonnet]

In order to let @Auran set his diplomacy, would anyone mind if we give him one day extra? Just for this time.

[Jiub]

He can do it on the fly, there's nothing urgent that needs settling.
He has like 2 neighbors only and he's safe.

Or was it something else in different words ?
Anyways, we've lost enough time on bull already haven't we ?

[sonnet]

He can do it on the fly, there's nothing urgent that needs settling.
He has like 2 neighbors only and he's safe.

Or was it something else in different words ?
Anyways, we've lost enough time on bullshit already haven't we ?

I think only Auran has right now the password for Castille (I asked Yuonyuon to pass him and he kindly did).
I sent him a message 1 hour ago, warning about time expiration. Hope he connects.

[Auran]

Alright, i'm starting my the second half of my turn now, and should be done in one or two hours max.

If anyone has any deals with me, i'd like to know them now. Otherwise i'll consider them null and void. I consider my NAP with France null, and I will renew it to 5 turns, to be increased hopefully when I understand what's going on, cause I don't want to be caught in an endless NAP :)

I consider my NAP with Moors completely NULL, since he has provinces in Spain and refuses to give them up. This is not a declaration of war, but just letting him know that I won't sit until I have my Spain. He can still do it the peaceful way...

Thanks.

[Emproment]

6 hours later..

[Auran]

Very sorry. I had to leave suddenly to go with family and drop them off at the airport. I came back very late and had to go sleep.

I'll do my best to play my turn soon.

Thanks for your patience.

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

Very sorry. I had to leave suddenly to go with family and drop them off at the airport. I came back very late and had to go sleep.

I'll do my best to play my turn soon.

Thanks for your patience.

We re gonna restart this as far as i know. The vote is still on.

[sonnet]

We re gonna restart this as far as i know. The vote is still on.

So far I got 6 votes (out of 10 votes, since I won't vote):
Option A - @Jiub @Makrell @Gaius Octavius Caesar

Option B- @Tonno @Auran @ebs @Lord Luka @Emproment

I'm waiting for the votes of: @Vipman @Core-i7-inside

[Tonno]

By the looks of it the HS will be open by me.
You won't mind if I add a small twist to it.

I feel sorry for Jiub, he had this one going.

[Gaius Octavius Caesar]

So far I got 6 votes (out of 10 votes, since I won't vote):
Option A - @Jiub

Option B- @Tonno @Auran @ebs @Lord Luka @Emproment

I'm waiting for the votes of: @Gaius Octavius Caesar @Makrell @Vipman @Core-i7-inside

@sonnet i also voted A.