Speaking of Israel...

[Fragony]

If we were talking about Israel in general that would be debatable. Gaza and the West bank, however, were grabbed in the six-day war which opened with an Israeli first strike.

I didn't know that, but it's hard to consider something a first strike when war has been declared.

[Papewaio]

I didn't know that, but it's hard to consider something a first strike when war has been declared.

How about before Israel was even declared a state?

The King David Hotel bombing?
The ethnic cleansing of a village?
Fighting the British whilst the British fought the Nazis?

There are things even now with deadlier technology and higher population densities that the ultra nationalists did that make what is happening now look like a sideshow. Not orders of magnitude worse but two or three times more deadly.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sorry to say Frags, but your arguments come off as rather thin...

You know I am no big fan of Arabic culture, but they most def are not the sole evil working in the region. Both the Jewish and the Arabic cultures are problematic towards each other, on a very much mutual scale.

[Fragony]

Sorry to say Frags, but your arguments come off as rather thin...

You know I am no big fan of Arabic culture, but they most def are not the sole evil working in the region. Both the Jewish and the Arabic cultures are problematic towards each other, on a very much mutual scale.

No agreement required. Israel gave back enough land imho. It isn't a war they started themselve. Borders change in wars. It would be nice if the settling stopped but I don't see it as the great unjustice some see it, gambled and lost.

[Pannonian]

No agreement required. Israel gave back enough land imho. It isn't a war they started themselve. Borders change in wars. It would be nice if the settling stopped but I don't see it as the great unjustice some see it, gambled and lost.

And now there is supposedly peace between Israel and the West Bank authorities, yet Israel continues to take land from the West Bank, which is an act of war. If you want to complain about the Gazans unilaterally making war on Israel, you can also complain about the Israelis unilaterally making war on the West Bank. At least I recognise all sides as being as bad as each other and none of them wanting peace, while you try to paint the Israelis white and peace-loving.

[Fragony]

And now there is supposedly peace between Israel and the West Bank authorities, yet Israel continues to take land from the West Bank, which is an act of war. If you want to complain about the Gazans unilaterally making war on Israel, you can also complain about the Israelis unilaterally making war on the West Bank. At least I recognise all sides as being as bad as each other and none of them wanting peace, while you try to paint the Israelis white and peace-loving.

I don't see Israel as peace loving, that would be kinda silly. But judging them for doing what they do is a stretch too far for me. They can't give back the west-bank, that is just as rolling on your back to expose your belly, artillary can hit anything from there. Why give a crap about UN resolutions, they are worth as much as the Nobel peace price. Without excusing Israel I am not going to judge them for being the way they are. I would be much more forgiving I think, but I can't know that really.

[rory_20_uk]

The two stretches of land were part of Egypt and Jordan, as things currently stand they are not viable entities for bieng states - hell, even Wales doesn't want to go it alone as they prefer to be a remora fish.

Having enclaves that have no hope whatsoever of being self sufficient - even if the blockades were not in place - is not sustainable. Add that to the power plant and water treatment facilities being clear military targets to Israel means things aren't going to improve.

[Pannonian]

And now there is supposedly peace between Israel and the West Bank authorities, yet Israel continues to take land from the West Bank, which is an act of war. If you want to complain about the Gazans unilaterally making war on Israel, you can also complain about the Israelis unilaterally making war on the West Bank. At least I recognise all sides as being as bad as each other and none of them wanting peace, while you try to paint the Israelis white and peace-loving.

Israel has announced plans to expropriate 4 sq km of Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29008045

[rory_20_uk]

Taking more land? How out of character! I hope this doesn't upset the peace process...

I love how all BBC websites end with this annexation is illegal under international law - although Israel disputes this.

Are we to see prisoners locked up in jail for breaking the law - although the criminals dispute the law in question.