ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

[Sarmatian]

Funny thing is, we are all comfortable with the fact blacks are much better athletes than all other ethnicities.

Yet of course all are absolutely equal when it comes to intellectual achievement.

Who said they are much better athletes?

[Husar]

You talk a lot... a LOT... about IQ tests being made for white persons... I ask in return, where are the intelligence tests for black persons?

It's like you automatically assume they have some hidden intellectual power we just don't know of. What the heck makes you think so? They seem to fail at pretty much anything, so again... If they have some extra intellectual powers, why do these never (or so rarely) seem to pop up positively in society ?

https://www.iqelite.com/en/account/scientific-tests/

The IQ (Intelligence Quotient) test was developed by PhDs. It has been examined by the SRH University of Applied Science Heidelberg.

It is a dynamic test, yielding more than 1 million unique combinations of test questions.

The test measures three aspects of intelligence:

Verbal-Logical: Comprehension of similar words or opposites, analogies, relationships and arguments.
Mathematical-Numerical: Comprehension of mathematical equations, patterns and numerical relationships.
Visual-Spatial: Comprehension of graphical patterns, analogies and visualizations.

How can someone who has a pretty harsh life compared to our and can only go to school sporadically score well in the mathematics test if she or he has missed half the mathematics classes? And how comparable is the design of verbal logical tests in different languages, which are sometimes based on quite different concepts?

And even then it clearly says "three aspects of intelligence", so are there more, which are not measured by this test or is this the ultimate IQ test? I'm not saying Africans have some hidden intellectual power, I'm saying that IQ tests may be bad at measuring the actual mental potential of a person.

And further I also question the idea that brain development is mostly dependent on genetics. If you can prove that African children who were given to white families in the west right after birth can never reach the same standard of whatever one can measure, then maybe there is a point to different genetic potentials for their brain cells, but otherwise I don't quite see why someone who lived a jungle life should be intellectually incapable just because he cannot solve mathematical equations when he never learned what maths is.

And then what about the maker of an intelligence test? If the guy who invented the test has an IQ of 120, how can he determine what the answers are to score a 160? To know which answers make you score a 160, you have to have a 160 yourself, but if you only have an IQ of 120, how can you determine the answers for a 160? How can he come up with the answer that is more clever than he could ever think of?

We already know black people generally have a higher kinetic intelligence (how the brain interact with the body), so I'll grant you that. But what other of the 7 commonly held intelligences do you seriously think black people manifest on better levels than the rest?

I don't care quite frankly, but why do you think the three out of seven that we ask for in tests here are the only ones that count and should be used to build apartheid walls?

I never had a black guy come to me and say "You shouldn't even try to dance, you are inherently too dumb to do that."
Yet you keep using a similar argument to tell black people they shouldn't come here because they're inherently too dumb to live in our societies.

"Blacks" are better runners, "Sloped Eyed People" are better thinkers... And us "pale-faces" have women with rocking bod's.

So when was the last time you asked a sloped eyed person about what you should think of immigration?

Nature already balanced it out for us, no need to get any panties in a twist when differences are argued.

And the white man invented ships and airplanes so that people can move quickly to other places on the earth and provides it happily to everyone, and nature will balance that out over time as well, why does the difference in your IQ tests matter again?

[HoreTore]

Who said they are much better athletes?

Not scientists.

[HoreTore]

"Evolution argues that organisms adapt to their environment.

THEREFORE

All our existing prejudices towards other humans must be true."



The wonders of right-wing logic. It's funny how none of these supposed "racial difference studies" never come up with anything new, they have an uncanny ability to only validate pre-existing notions.

Also funny to note how those proposing these ideas never seem to be bothered by how all their studies have been massively debunked by the top educational institutions of the world.

Science only matters to the right-winger when it confirms their existing worldview.

[Fragony]

"Evolution argues that organisms adapt to their environment.

THEREFORE

All our existing prejudices towards other humans must be true."



The wonders of right-wing logic. It's funny how none of these supposed "racial difference studies" never come up with anything new, they have an uncanny ability to only validate pre-existing notions.

Also funny to note how those proposing these ideas never seem to be bothered by how all their studies have been massively debunked by the top educational institutions of the world.

Science only matters to the right-winger when it confirms their existing worldview.

Too hilarious if it wouldn't be so scary when it comes to having a total lack of understanding irony.

[HoreTore]

Too hilarious if it wouldn't be so scary when it comes to having a total lack of understanding irony.

A true believer is never easily swayed, you are really living up to the right-wing label, Frags.

[Fragony]

A true believer is never easily swayed, you are really living up to the right-wing label, Frags.

Yeah, that must be why I have never voted in my life. I don't like rightwingers really. lefties see everything they don't absolutily agree with without any compromise whatsoever as wrong. Lack of brains. Not my fault.

[HoreTore]

Yeah, that must be why I have never voted in my life. I don't like rightwingers really. lefties see everything they don't absolutily agree with without any compromise whatsoever as wrong. Lack of brains. Not my fault.

This is just your typical nonsense.

I can use myself as an example. I rarely read "leftist" publications, and prefer to read conservative and/or liberal stuff. Wealth of Nations is a favourite, and I have adopted a lot of its content into my opinions.

[Fragony]

This is just your typical nonsense.

I can use myself as an example. I rarely read "leftist" publications, and prefer to read conservative and/or liberal stuff. Wealth of Nations is a favourite, and I have adopted a lot of its content into my opinions.

Call it nonsense but I am just not interested in politics. I don't mind agreeing or disagreeing with anything. Fire away.

[HoreTore]

I am just not interested in politics.

Completely irrelevant. You don't have to care about politics at all to be a right-winger.

[Fragony]

I am no rightwinger, I just am just very much not left. All I want is sensible policies and reasonable debate, and be able to call a spade a spade without getting my eyes clawed out because of assumptions that don't resonate all that well with reality, but I should take for granted regardless.

[Kadagar_AV]

https://www.iqelite.com/en/account/scientific-tests/



How can someone who has a pretty harsh life compared to our and can only go to school sporadically score well in the mathematics test if she or he has missed half the mathematics classes? And how comparable is the design of verbal logical tests in different languages, which are sometimes based on quite different concepts?

And even then it clearly says "three aspects of intelligence", so are there more, which are not measured by this test or is this the ultimate IQ test? I'm not saying Africans have some hidden intellectual power, I'm saying that IQ tests may be bad at measuring the actual mental potential of a person.

And further I also question the idea that brain development is mostly dependent on genetics. If you can prove that African children who were given to white families in the west right after birth can never reach the same standard of whatever one can measure, then maybe there is a point to different genetic potentials for their brain cells, but otherwise I don't quite see why someone who lived a jungle life should be intellectually incapable just because he cannot solve mathematical equations when he never learned what maths is.

And then what about the maker of an intelligence test? If the guy who invented the test has an IQ of 120, how can he determine what the answers are to score a 160? To know which answers make you score a 160, you have to have a 160 yourself, but if you only have an IQ of 120, how can you determine the answers for a 160? How can he come up with the answer that is more clever than he could ever think of?



I don't care quite frankly, but why do you think the three out of seven that we ask for in tests here are the only ones that count and should be used to build apartheid walls?

I never had a black guy come to me and say "You shouldn't even try to dance, you are inherently too dumb to do that."
Yet you keep using a similar argument to tell black people they shouldn't come here because they're inherently too dumb to live in our societies.



So when was the last time you asked a sloped eyed person about what you should think of immigration?



And the white man invented ships and airplanes so that people can move quickly to other places on the earth and provides it happily to everyone, and nature will balance that out over time as well, why does the difference in your IQ tests matter again?

First of all, black people living in western societies doesn't really fit well under the umbrella of "pretty harsh life compared to our and can only go to school sporadically".

It seems like you don't have an inkling on modern intelligence research. Last I checked we had 7 intelligences, albeit this is a field of study that can more or less change over night.

IQ tests ABSOLUTELY do not say anything more of a person than how well they score on IQ tests. However, IQ in and of itself has been linked to more advanced thinking in the logical sphere.

Basically, just because you have an high IQ you don't have to be intelligent. However, if you want to bet who is more intelligent between a guy with low IQ and a guy with high IQ - you should always put your money on the guy with high IQ.

You won't win every time, just like a turtle sometimes do beat the rabbit. In the real world however, we put our money on the rabbit.


To move on, I never said that intelligence was solely based on genetics. The very idea is preposterous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Intelligence is based on 2 things, to inform you.

1. Genetics.
2. Environment.

As culture ties in tightly with "environment", it's rather obvious that ethnicities sharing both genetic and cultural traits will eventually show differences compared to other ethnicities. In the time span of tens of thousands of years, at the minimum, this is an absolute fact.


Lucky day for you, there HAS been studies made of adoptive children.

Guess what, these studies adhere to all the other studies showing East Asians being more smart and black people being more not. IIRC Minnesota did the most famous transracial adoption study.

Yes black children put in white homes do better than black children put in black homes. However, they don't do as well as white children, and are a laugh and a half away from the Asians.


Further, as to what IQ tests really are... You seem less coherent and precise than usual here, so I question if you have read up on what exactly intelligence and intelligence tests are?


I never once said anything about building apartheid walls, have I?

I just mean that my country, among others, have to accept that some ethnicities will take more effort off of our shared energies to be able to be fully functional citizens in a modern society.

I'm a teacher, and quite frankly black people generally need more resources to be able to learn well. This should be factored in when deciding where to best use the available resources in IE schools - as well as be factored in when it comes to immigration.


I don't need to ask "slope eyed" people what they think of immigration. It's easy to tell from what the East Asian nations do. See much immigrants in Japan? Huh?

No?

I guess they don't like it then, as immigrants are quite easy to get these days, would you so like.

So yeah, if we ask the intelligent East Asians their example shows that we in the west are being stupid accepting the immigrant waves we do, and changing society to accommodate for them in the way we do.

[HoreTore]

Old racist stereotypes

30.000 years of living in different environments certainly is not bound to create a meaningful difference in cognitive ability. If you wish to argue this, you will need to identify the cause of this difference. So far, you have pointed to the need for clothing and food storage during the winter. This is weak, to say the least, and easily countered by pointing to the scorching sun in a desert and droughts(according to your logic, Somalians should be the smartest people on earth).

There is very little evidence that humans have evolved our cognitive abilities since our change in diet(more meat) around 50.000 years ago. No surprises there, given that evolution is an extremely slow process.

As for your drivel on adopted children, it's needless to say it's not supported by science.

[Montmorency]

given that evolution is an extremely slow process.

Which is why it's best to avoid succumbing to the temptation of saltational thinking.

There is very little evidence that humans have evolved our cognitive abilities since our change in diet(more meat) around 50.000 years ago. No surprises there,

The changes in diet, and gut-size, and muscle-protein receptor genetics, were well-underway by the time the hominid brain became human-like 200-100K years ago.

http://references.260mb.com/Paleonto...Aiello1995.pdf

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21104821055497

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wolpo...ain%20Size.pdf

Jeez, am I really popping in sporadically just to make really pedantic out-of-context remarks about an issue I've long-since stopped following?

[HoreTore]

The changes in diet, and gut-size, and muscle-protein receptor genetics, were well-underway by the time the hominid brain became human-like 200-100K years ago.

I take it you do not subscribe to the notion of a "great leap forward"? That's fine. The reason why I referred to that theory is that AFAIK this is the dominant of the two theories currently.

[Husar]

I take it you do not subscribe to the notion of a "great leap forward"? That's fine. The reason why I referred to that theory is that AFAIK this is the dominant of the two theories currently.

A great leap forward? 50k years ago?
Wasn't that when god created Adam and Eve?

And no Kadagar, I have no idea what intelligences are, how many of them are scientifically proven to exist in a given framework of didtinguishable differences or how well that corresponds to reality. Given that HoreTore has posted several links to debunk most of what you say, I assume it would be a waste of time to read your debunked sources now, had you bothered to link to all of them.
And of course some people require more effort, a good first effort would be to stop ignoring or treating them like outcasts in very subtle ways.

[Pannonian]

30.000 years of living in different environments certainly is not bound to create a meaningful difference in cognitive ability. If you wish to argue this, you will need to identify the cause of this difference. So far, you have pointed to the need for clothing and food storage during the winter. This is weak, to say the least, and easily countered by pointing to the scorching sun in a desert and droughts(according to your logic, Somalians should be the smartest people on earth).

There is very little evidence that humans have evolved our cognitive abilities since our change in diet(more meat) around 50.000 years ago. No surprises there, given that evolution is an extremely slow process.

As for your drivel on adopted children, it's needless to say it's not supported by science.

In any case, the human brain, unlike the octopus one which is supposed to have evolved to devise ways of finding food and avoid becoming food, is geared towards social interaction, like most other advanced brains in the animal kingdom. So better use of the brain is achieved by exposing the individual to greater social stimulation. Which is culture, not genetics.

[HoreTore]

A great leap forward? 50k years ago?
Wasn't that when god created Adam and Eve?

According to my sources, God created Adam and Steve around that time.

[Kadagar_AV]

And no Kadagar, I have no idea what intelligences are, how many of them are scientifically proven to exist in a given framework of didtinguishable differences or how well that corresponds to reality.

Well, then it might be time you got schooled, no? May I suggest you start up with Gardner's studies on intelligence. That is basically the framework the scientific society use as of today

Given that HoreTore has posted several links to debunk most of what you say, I assume it would be a waste of time to read your debunked sources now, had you bothered to link to all of them.

Given that HT is a flaming communist with often weak concepts of reality, I wouldn't lean on his contributions all too much.

I already hinted you at the Minnesota transracial adoption study... You couldn't just highlight and google it? There are plenty more examples, let me know if you want to be get informed :)

And of course some people require more effort, a good first effort would be to stop ignoring or treating them like outcasts in very subtle ways.

Oh wow...

You basically say that them blacks sure might take more effort to include in modern western society, but if we just look the other way we won't see a problem?

[Husar]

Well, then it might be time you got schooled, no? May I suggest you start up with Gardner's studies on intelligence. That is basically the framework the scientific society use as of today

Most certainly not, I don't trust Gardner or anyone who studies intelligence.

Given that HT is a flaming communist with often weak concepts of reality, I wouldn't lean on his contributions all too much.

I already hinted you at the Minnesota transracial adoption study... You couldn't just highlight and google it? There are plenty more examples, let me know if you want to be get informed :)

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA, you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?
Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

Oh wow...

You basically say that them blacks sure might take more effort to include in modern western society, but if we just look the other way we won't see a problem?

No, not what I said. I'm sure you can read better than that...

[drone]

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA, you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?
Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

And they say Americans don't know geography...

[Kadagar_AV]

Most certainly not, I don't trust Gardner or anyone who studies intelligence.

Well then it's hard to help you.

If humanitys best effort just isn't good enough for you, I really don't know what to bring to the table.

Mionnesota is in the south of the USA

Dude. No.

you yourself keep saying how horrible these people are, why should I trust them?

I think USAnian foreign politics is often pure evil. That has little to nothing to do with the proud people of Minnesota. Heck, I openly grant they made good studies on racial inequality.

Somewhere around 20 years ago (give or take two hundred years) they still held blacks as slaves there.

Yeah... Let's just say this wasn't the peak of your argumentation ability. Shall we?

[Husar]

And they say Americans don't know geography...

Indeed, that was not excusable, and yes, my knowledge of US geography is not that great concerning some states.
I should have just checked a map, but hey, I'm a monkey, what can I say....

Well then it's hard to help you.

If humanitys best effort just isn't good enough for you, I really don't know what to bring to the table.

I think USAnian foreign politics is often pure evil. That has little to nothing to do with the proud people of Winnesota. Heck, I openly grant they made good studies on racial inequality.

Yeah... Let's just say this wasn't the peak of your argumentation ability. Shall we?

After that geography blunder I will just give up, I'm too stupid to argue about this, sorry.
So what do you propose we do about the issue then, now that I concede that the average IQ of Africans has to be almost as low as mine?

[Kadagar_AV]

Indeed, that was not excusable, and yes, my knowledge of US geography is not that great concerning some states.
I should have just checked a map, but hey, I'm a monkey, what can I say....



After that geography blunder I will just give up, I'm too stupid to argue about this, sorry.
So what do you propose we do about the issue then, now that I concede that the average IQ of Africans has to be almost as low as mine?

Awww.... C'mon Husar, I still love you :)

As to what to do about it...

You have to bear in mind that I am Swedish... We are right now more or less exchanging our gene-stock with African ones. I have a problem with people who think you can just toss hundreds of thousands of people from less orderly ethnicities in, without a grasp of the concept that it might lead to problems.

The only thing I ask for is that the Africans we already have should be assimilated into our modern society before we take on more.

So yeah, quite a leap away from jumping up and down doing Sieg Heils.

[Greyblades]

So there was something about issa... isis... is... issl... whatever, someone seemed worried about that... thing. Seemed important. Enough to make a 10 page thread over almost. What was it?... I seem to have forgotten, having a thread hiijacked by racist bullshit just does that to me sometimes.

[Kadagar_AV]

So there was something about issa... isis... is... issl... whatever, someone seemed worried about that... thing. Seemed important. Enough to make a 10 page thread over almost. What was it?... I seem to have forgotten, having a thread hiijacked by racist bullshit just does that to me sometimes.

Welcome to the Org. Backroom :)

See, this is the CHARM here!!

[Tuuvi]

As culture ties in tightly with "environment", it's rather obvious that ethnicities sharing both genetic and cultural traits will eventually show differences compared to other ethnicities. In the time span of tens of thousands of years, at the minimum, this is an absolute fact.

Throughout human history people have been migrating to new lands, conducting long distance trade, and going to war with each other, inter-breeding and spreading their genes as they go. As a result there are not sharp genetic distinctions between different races.

Culture and ethnicity are not static. Culture evolves over time and ethnic identity is subject to change, so it is unlikely that culture could have influenced one group to evolve differently from another.

I googled the Minnesota transracial adoption study and according to Wikipedia, the authors of the study didn't consider the results to support a genetic or an environmental explanation for racial IQ differences, because there were too many confounding factors. The study can be interpreted as supporting a genetic explanation but that's not the only possible interpretation, the results weren't so clear cut.

[Kadagar_AV]

Throughout human history people have been migrating to new lands, conducting long distance trade, and going to war with each other, inter-breeding and spreading their genes as they go. As a result there are not sharp genetic distinctions between different races.

Are. You. On. Drugs.

You basically claim there are no asian or black people. This is preposterous. Of course people breed across "the lines", but when you start to count people in the number of millions you can easily see ethnical differences.

Culture and ethnicity are not static. Culture evolves over time and ethnic identity is subject to change, so it is unlikely that culture could have influenced one group to evolve differently from another.

Pretty much all of modern science would disagree with that. You basically say that culture does not impact on the evolutionary scale.

This. Is. Stupid.

Go find your school teacher and beat him up for doing a bad job.

googled the Minnesota transracial adoption study and according to Wikipedia, the authors of the study didn't consider the results to support a genetic or an environmental explanation for racial IQ differences, because there were too many confounding factors.

Well then read the actual report. East Asians did well, black people did not.

"Confounding factors" is a PC way of saying "let's not touch this".

As soon as you start to read data, instead of having some filter on how you should read data, the realization will probably be shocking to you.

The study can be interpreted as supporting a genetic explanation but that's not the only possible interpretation, the results weren't so clear cut.

You can interpret that black people do worse on modern intelligence tests in any and every way you want. Bottom line will still be that they do worse on intelligence tests.

You can make any excuses for it that you want, but it really doesn't matter, as they will still show the results they do.

[Montmorency]

You basically claim there are no asian or black people. This is preposterous.

Holy guys, he's FINALLY got the point, only to deny it outright without a second thought.

I declare you a member of the Fragony race, Kad.

[Kadagar_AV]

Holy guys, he's FINALLY got the point, only to deny it outright without a second thought.

I declare you a member of the Fragony race, Kad.

That's quite OK.. I will of course in return whiff you off as someone who hasn't understood that ethnical differences exist.