Ukraine Thread

[Husar]

The DDR had free elections at the end of its existence, after which the new Volkskammer voted to split the DDR into several smaller entities, which entered the BRD separately as new Länder. I suppose that the vote might have been contrary to the DDR's constitution, I have no idea.

The point is that it hardly matters whether it fit the DDR constitution as hardly anyone wanted to keep that anyway. The Russians retreated from there (IIRC they were paid a hefty sum of money for it), there was no resistance by the population that I'm aware of, quite the contrary in fact, and their representatives, however representative they actually were, voted in favor of it. Their top politicians left/fled the country and the army didn't resist either unless I missed that war entirely.
It's questionable whether anyone could actually have a legitimate complaint given that there were none at the time it happened. Where would complaints come from? From the countries or people who watched it happen or agreed to it at the time?

I mean if another country says it was not agreeable enough as an event the way it happened, then I can probably find an argument for how that country should be disbanded based on its own disagreeable foundation. Most major countries I can think of have "integrated" people or geographical locations in far more violent ways, in the Germany case it was even a re-unification, basically just a return to a status that had previously existed instead of the addition of entirely new territory. Even a banana import restrictions reform leaves more ground for complaints than that.

[Gilrandir]

"And perhaps Brenus as well - after all he must pay something, Napoleon was a well-known arsonists." And perhaps you should learn History: Most historians agreed that the Russians set fire to Moscow following the orders of Count Rospochin to deprive the Grande Armée of any shelter. Is it ignorance or deliberate lies? No, it is ignorance.

It is neither. However, since you don't believe me anyway, you can believe it is both.
In fact, you are as bad at detecting irony as I am.
Yet if you adopt an edifying attitude, you should have at least taken pains to get the names correct. It is Count Rostopchin. Is is ignorance or deliberate lies? No, it is

The point is that it hardly matters whether it fit the DDR constitution as hardly anyone wanted to keep that anyway.

It's questionable whether anyone could actually have a legitimate complaint given that there were none at the time it happened.

... in the Germany case it was even a re-unification, basically just a return to a status that had previously existed instead of the addition of entirely new territory.

The problem is that very similar arguments are put forward by Russia trying to justify the annexation of Crimea. Replace "Germany" with "Russia" and "DDR" with "Crimea" and you can debate with yourself to your heart's content.


Gathering of clouds?
http://www.interpretermag.com/moscow...ne-golts-says/

[Brenus]

"Is is ignorance or deliberate lies? No, it is" No, just simple spelling mistake due a different alphabet. As usual, you lack of knowledge. Does it change the reality of your claim based on ignorance? No.

[Gilrandir]

Does it change the reality of your claim based on ignorance? No.

Believe me or not, at school and at University I studied the subject called "The history of the USSR", so I am well aware of the fact you refer to. You again fail to see that it wasn't a "claim based on ignorance" (and my awareness of the correct name of the 1812 arsonist is a proof), but a sarcastic remark aimed at showing stupidity of the claim forwarded by Russian Duma. Husar's posts are full of sarcasm, somehow you never accuse him of ignorance or other sins. Yet you go on spouting vitriol only at me following the logics: "If he doesn't understand something - he lacks brains, if he (as I believe) doesn't know something - he is know-nothing, if he expresses a different view of things - he is an obsurantist nazi". If France is full with the likes of you, I don't wonder you will have other Charlie Hebdo style accidents.
And speaking of nazis:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine...s-rebel-chief/
Any crying foul on how nazism flourishes in DNR?

[Brenus]

“and my awareness of the correct name of the 1812 arsonist is a proof)” Nope, that is an “proof” that you know to use research engine….

“you go on spouting vitriol only at me following the logics: "If he doesn't understand something - lacks brains, if he (as I believe) doesn't know something - he is know-nothing, if he expresses a different view of things - he is an obsurantist nazi".” Can I remind you who start this? By the way, obscurantist and Nazi is a pleonasm.

“If France is full with the likes of you, I don't wonder you will have other Charlie Hebdo style accidents.” Thanks. You just confirm my judgement on your opinion and judgment capacities. The murdered ones deserved what happened to them… Was not an accident, it was a deliberate attack by obscurantist Muslim Fanatics. Not it matters for you, apparently.

“Any crying foul on how nazism flourishes in DNR?” Nope. Russians are known for anti-Semitism, I think the word pogrom comes for here. Wearing Nazi uniform is just a step forward that Ukrainian did. From you previous appreciation, I though you would call them extreme-nationalists. I am not sure of for classification, but it was something like this.

Ok, we clarified the burning of Moscow, I will go back to my indifference for this thread you awake me from, in putting my avatar’s name in.

[Viking]

The German and French leaders are starting to feel like they've had enough with Putin's unreliability.

[Gilrandir]

The German and French leaders are starting to feel like they've had enough with Putin's unreliability.

And Putin, perhaps, is showing the size of the gun he has at home... oops, the guns which are sold at supermarkets all over Russia.

[Gilrandir]

“and my awareness of the correct name of the 1812 arsonist is a proof)” Nope, that is an “proof” that you know to use research engine….

So only you can really know something, others (especially those you don't like) only google it. What a conceit!

“If France is full with the likes of you, I don't wonder you will have other Charlie Hebdo style accidents.” Thanks. You just confirm my judgement on your opinion and judgment capacities. The murdered ones deserved what happened to them…

Again distortion. More than once I said I was sorry for the victims. I wanted others (since you apparently won't) to see that for modern France the choice is get polite or get armed. CH did neither. Now France seems to have opted for the latter. And it is good. If it can't grow decency, it has at least started growing some common sense (albeit at the cost of freedom and security measures expenses).

“Any crying foul on how nazism flourishes in DNR?” Nope. Russians are known for anti-Semitism, I think the word pogrom comes for here.

1. What a piece of generalized xenophobia! All Russians are? It is like claiming that the French are known for alcohol (notably wine) abuse.
2. Zakharchenko is not Russian. Although, he apparently doesn't consider himself Ukainian either.

Wearing Nazi uniform is just a step forward that Ukrainian did.

We have had a discussion on uniforms way back, so I won't enter a sequel of it. But if you think that wearing any uniform is much more terrible that hating other nations... But at least you NOW admit that nazis are in DNR (and at the head of the "state" too).

Ok, we clarified the burning of Moscow, I will go back to my indifference for this thread you awake me from, in putting my avatar’s name in.

Like I said, the burning of Moscow was clear to me at least in the 6th grade, but if you say so... Go back to sleep, sweet dreams and let no obscurantists/nazis enter them.
Meanwile for all you night walkers out there - a new interception by SBU.
http://espreso.tv/news/2015/02/07/pe...quot_z_donbasu
In it a Russian officer (nickname CHIEF), responsible for dealing with the killed in Donbas Russian military, upbraides an official of DPR for issuing death certificates which have Donetsk morgues' seals on them. He says that he has several hundreds of such certificates which create problems for him since his job is to conceal the cases. He insisits that the dead must not come in zincs and the death certificates must not mention Ukraine as the site of death. Such caskets should be sent only to a specific military unit's location where he will forge (sic!) the neccessary documents. He is very much vexed with the fact that undesirable death certificates appear from time to time in different Russian cities (he mentioned St. Petersburg and Krasnoyarsk). Cheif is also dissatisfied with the fact that journalists are prowling about Rostov sniffing out unpleasant truth which the families of the dead are likely to reveal to them for some remuneration.