France Shoot-Out

[Fragony]

That does not answer the question. I'll ask it again: how long do people have to reside in the land of Fragony before they are considered Fraggonites?

I thought I was clear. You can't. You can come here and live here. I prefer it if you don't but that's just me, and you mostly. Polish people drink a lot and cause a lot of accidents. And don't even bother calling emergencie-lines and let someone rot on the street because their numberplates are false and their cars stolen, and they probably gobbed up a biottle of wodka pp

[Brenus]

“WHERE DID I SAY THE KILLERS WERE OFFENDED BECAUSE THE QURAN SAID SO?”” And where did I say that? I wrote: “You explained that the killers have grounds”. You did, didn’t you?

“More than once you expressed your vehement dissatisfaction and disdain of holy books in general and of Quran in particular and pity and scorn of the people who use this opium (according to Marx) to poison their minds. If this (dissatisfaction+disdain+pity+scorn) doesn't amount to hatred than it was a wrong choice of word, but using DDPS every time would have caused even more problems with the sematically-minded you.” You really have to purchase a dictionary. And read Marx.
I can’t be dissatisfied by a book that has no value at all for me. I am quite aware of what it is written on it, and I carry on "studying" it as an historical fact. I have for sure not a respect in the teaching of “holly” books but the books themselves are just books. And the Quran has no privilege or special attention from me. My records with TR about the Bible are there to prove it, if you want to read them. Again a failed attempt to input some sub-racism in my writings…
Now, about Marx and Religions, well, Marx explained quite openly that Religions are pain-killers (not poison), opium in the XIX century being mainly used for. You can check on a research engine, when you have time. All right, I am doing it for you: Quote is: “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
So, that is for dissatisfaction and Marx.
I never really express pity for the followers of any faith, but if to have pity for someone is a bad thing in your world, it is not in mine.
As scorn is concerned, again you are inventing a feeling I haven’t. As mentioned before in another thread, if I had this kind of feelings, I would have to scorn my grand-daughter and my grand-sons and their parents. I strongly disagree with their beliefs; they know it, and nothing more.
So your well-prepare diatribe is just falling flat. Sorry. Nice try, mind you. Where did you find the concept of DDPS?

“And I didn't read Quran so I can't know what it says, remember?” Hey, not my fault if you wrote “Charlie Ebdo by doggedly continuing to insult religious sentiment of muslims”. So I thought, wrongly apparently, you had a clue of what you were speaking about. I do apology for my mistake.
So your point is the killers had grounds but you don’t know which one. Fair enough.

“You generalize that there was no reason for ALL OF THEM to feel offended”: Nope, I went in their texts, in the Quran (well to be fair, I read in French Muslim Scholars analyses and quotes). Now, that for political reasons and for political gains some Islamic Fanatics, after having put millions in the spreading of their version of Islam (and not the Quran), used a non-existent texts in order to justify criminal attacks is not new in politics and history, from the Russian Tsar and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to the weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, or the Horse Shoes operation in Kosovo. Pakistanis never heard of CH before, or the Afghans… So it was hard for them to be offended if no one told them to be offended.

“Is it racism to claim that blacks have black skin?”: It is not was you said. You said that blacks have the same reaction as a group. You might be surprise, but black Americans do not have the same reaction than black French, German or African. To attribute reaction to groups based on race is racism. Religions not being a race, it is not racism, but again, all Religions are multiple as multiple than their lecture and their understanding of what is supposed to be the same book (I speak here of the common book with the same larger common denominator i.e. Christianity or Islam).

“This is political correctness” Nope, sociology or/and ethnology.

[Gilrandir]

“WHERE DID I SAY THE KILLERS WERE OFFENDED BECAUSE THE QURAN SAID SO?”” And where did I say that? I wrote: “You explained that the killers have grounds”. You did, didn’t you?

Finally. You have made my life easier. I don't have to do much to answer you - just copypaste what I once said. So quote:
And I never said about THE KILLERS having grounds/reasons. I have to repeat again: I spoke of MUSLIMS having grounds to be offended unquote.
If for you KILLERS=(all) MUSLIMS, well, you have to sort things out for yourself.

“More than once you expressed your vehement dissatisfaction and disdain of holy books in general and of Quran in particular and pity and scorn of the people who use this opium (according to Marx) to poison their minds. If this (dissatisfaction+disdain+pity+scorn) doesn't amount to hatred than it was a wrong choice of word, but using DDPS every time would have caused even more problems with the sematically-minded you.” You really have to purchase a dictionary. And read Marx.

My reference to Marx was to justify the usage of "opium". You agreed to it. Poisoning of the whole system is the result of constant abuse of drugs and opium is one. Logically, those who resort to opium poison themselves. To make it clear for you: Marx said nothing about the poison, I metaphorically developed the statement he metaphorically worded.

I never really express pity for the followers of any faith, but if to have pity for someone is a bad thing in your world, it is not in mine.

Pity as a feeling is never a pure one. Being not a psychologist, but having some experience of analyzing fiction texts expressing emotions, I can identify at least two types of it: pity with admixture of compassion and pity with admixture of disgust. It is for you to decide which one you feel, but the latter is definitely a negative emotion.

So your well-prepare diatribe is just falling flat. Sorry. Nice try, mind you.

I'm glad you liked it. And one more positive emotion I got from your post is your picturing myself sorrounded by dictionaries, encyclopedias, selected (or even complete) Marx with a pencil behind my ear making notes, ticking passages in books and sucking hard at another pencil between my teeth trying to invent some excruciating comment to crash you.
I must dissappoint you (which you admit I always did, but I'm afraid I'll do it again), answering you doesn't take such a prominent place on the list of my mustdos. Yet it feels pleasant to know someone is thinking of you so much. Boy, I think I'm beginning to like this elusive communication of ours. Pinch me, someone.

Where did you find the concept of DDPS?

I invented it myself. Do you like it?

So your point is the killers had grounds but you don’t know which one. Fair enough.

See above on KILLERS=/=MUSLIMS

“You generalize that there was no reason for ALL OF THEM to feel offended”: Nope, I went in their texts, in the Quran (well to be fair, I read in French Muslim Scholars analyses and quotes). Now, that for political reasons and for political gains some Islamic Fanatics, after having put millions in the spreading of their version of Islam (and not the Quran), used a non-existent texts in order to justify criminal attacks is not new in politics and history, from the Russian Tsar and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to the weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, or the Horse Shoes operation in Kosovo. Pakistanis never heard of CH before, or the Afghans… So it was hard for them to be offended if no one told them to be offended.

Forget about books. It is humans who kill Frenchmen, not books that do. It is important what PEOPLE feel, think and do, not what the BOOKS say. When you realize that, you might have another take on the things. I really don't think you will, but, who knows, you might.

“Is it racism to claim that blacks have black skin?”: It is not was you said. You said that blacks have the same reaction as a group. You might be surprise, but black Americans do not have the same reaction than black French, German or African. To attribute reaction to groups based on race is racism. Religions not being a race, it is not racism, but again, all Religions are multiple as multiple than their lecture and their understanding of what is supposed to be the same book (I speak here of the common book with the same larger common denominator i.e. Christianity or Islam).

While it is not true to claim that ALL representatives of racial, soical, ethnic, religious groups have the same reaction, one can't deny the existence of behavioral patterns typical for the said groups (and expected by the memebers of these groups from other members) in response to similar stimuli.

[Gilrandir]

Not sure it belongs here but it seems like Charlie Hebdo makes fun of tragedies:

http://www.france24.com/en/20151106-...6&dlvrit=66745

I wonder if they put in their spoke about MH17 crash?

[Fragony]

MH17 crash mostly affects the Netherlands, I wouldn't take any offence myself but some might

Satire must be able to be offensive imho, even nasty and cruel

[Brenus]

Difficult to judge as they don't show the cartoon.
I just went on French sites and saw them. As usual, not my cup of tea, but really, sacrilege?
However, the charge of sacrilege doesn't exist yet in France.
Then, the ancestor of Charlie mocked the death of the French President and WW2 heroe Charles de Gaulle.

And they don't make fun. The cartoon just highlights the fact that this is an attack following Russian attack on Jihadists.
As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

[Gilrandir]

And they don't make fun. The cartoon just highlights the fact that this is an attack following Russian attack on Jihadists.
As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

A cartoon's purpose is always derision/mocking. I'm the last person here to defend Russia in any situation, yet it seems to me that the death of people is not the means to sharpen one's skills in being witty and sarcastic. Why didn't they do that when their staff died?

[Greyblades]

Russia is thin skinned; who'da thunk it?

As the drawing of the drowned kid was highlighting the fact that less than 2 weeks after his death nobody cared anymore, with Hungary re-creating a Berlin wall, without not any real outcry of indignation of the "free" world.

Why would there be indignation when the comparison to the berlin wall is pathetic?

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm on Frags side here... Getting a nationality doesnt necessarily mean ethnic people from that nation will consider you as one of them.

How long it takes depends... I guess they are seen as of that nationality when they start to act like it?


IE, Henke Larsson I can say is Swedish(ish, he is still black)... Zlatan Ibrahimovitc or whatever isn't. Henke acts like a Swede in manner, Zlatan doesnt.

We respect Zlatan as a football player just like the french respect the FFL...

[CrossLOPER]

I thought I was clear. You can't. You can come here and live here. I prefer it if you don't but that's just me, and you mostly. Polish people drink a lot and cause a lot of accidents. And don't even bother calling emergencie-lines and let someone rot on the street because their numberplates are false and their cars stolen, and they probably gobbed up a biottle of wodka pp

So Istanbul is still Konstantinopolis?