Phalanx testing--please respond

[QuintusSertorius]

Does anyone have observations on the latest EDU (no more secondary weapons and standardisation of stats for phalanxes) they'd like to share?

[Vilkku92]

Does anyone have observations on the latest EDU (no more secondary weapons and standardisation of stats for phalanxes) they'd like to share?

Playing as Pergamon, using those basic phalanxes (phlangitai?) for my faction. Limited experiences with them so far, mostly against Pontus. So far I've noticed that when I keep their flanks secured and keep them pointed at the enemy, they take almost no casualties. As in, I've had maybe 2-3 battles against respectably sized armies, and lost about 10-30 men total for each unit. They weren't cakewalks either: units positioned on the flanks lost over half or so of their manpower, same with cavalry and missiles. Phalanxes stopped, killed or routed anything from Pontic Spearmen to Kinsmen Cavalry, no sweat. However, I didn't see my phalanxes get outflanked, nor did I get much experience engaging enemies with broken formations. I also didn't face any phalanxes myself. So far they seem to be nigh-invulnerable against frontal assaults by cavalry and ordinary infantry, and almost unstoppable if not flanked, but I need to play some more to be sure.

[Chap]

I have had the same experience as Vilkku except i'm playing as Carthage so i encounter the phalanx. The AI leaves them behind when they march towards me. So when they finally reach the front lines, half of the enemy has routed.

They are a tough unit to face head on so i treat them carefully. Elite units can push into their formation from the sides but in front the phalanx remains solid. They are still capable units when their formation is scattered so i prefer to rout them instead. However by the time i'm fighting them the rest of their army is running away so its not that hard to do.

[Baharr]

I don't know if this is redundant to mention, but pikes underperforming terribly in Medieval 2 has been a problem pretty much since launch. The standard fix that many mods (Stainless Steel, TATW, etc.) use is the removal of pike units' secondary weapons, since they switch to them way too frequently and generally fail to behave like actual pikemen if they have a secondary weapon. If they only have their pikes they tend to maintain formation and fight in a manner closer to Rome 1 phalanxes.

It's been mentioned in the thread before that the lack of a secondary weapon is why pantodapoi can beat pezhetairoi - I just wanted to add that it's been a Med2 engine issue from day one.

(I'd add a link to a bunch of threads discussing the problem but apparently I'm not allowed yet. Quickly googling "medieval 2 pike fix" should throw up more than enough info, though)

[Ibrahim]

I don't know if this is redundant to mention, but pikes underperforming terribly in Medieval 2 has been a problem pretty much since launch. The standard fix that many mods (Stainless Steel, TATW, etc.) use is the removal of pike units' secondary weapons, since they switch to them way too frequently and generally fail to behave like actual pikemen if they have a secondary weapon. If they only have their pikes they tend to maintain formation and fight in a manner closer to Rome 1 phalanxes.

It's been mentioned in the thread before that the lack of a secondary weapon is why pantodapoi can beat pezhetairoi - I just wanted to add that it's been a Med2 engine issue from day one.

(I'd add a link to a bunch of threads discussing the problem but apparently I'm not allowed yet. Quickly googling "medieval 2 pike fix" should throw up more than enough info, though)

we're aware of the fact that this has been an issue from day one. We were hoping for a possible way round it, or failing that, a way to ensure that the phalangites don't just turn around.

As it is, we seem to be making progress, though other feedback is needed.