Terror Attack: 130 Dead in Paris

**Montmorency** · 11-20-2015, 16:04

Chinese proverb: Tofu is better than centralized socialist economy

**Viking** · 11-20-2015, 16:21

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Chinese proverb: Tofu is better than centralized socialist economy

Coincidentally, that's my favourite Einstein quote.

**Husar** · 11-20-2015, 17:18

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Videos like this are awful and the mindset they breed are part of the problem. The people who commit these atrocities do not care about French culture nor do they think it's the way of the future. I can't for the life of me figure out who those videos are for? Is this supposed to make me take heart at because France has given so much to the world? I know that, it's one of the reasons I am so upset.

Maybe he is just venting and I for one also agree with him.

As for the woman being innocent or not, her neighbors described her as a very nice and kind person. You may say that's how they described every school shooter as well, but I'm not sure if school shooters and islamists can be compared like that. So Fragony may have a point, but I guess the experts will have to find out. If she was not a suicide bomber then I guess someone else must have had the trigger, if not then she probably blew herself up and cried to attract the policemen to take them with her...
As much as I also have a soft spot for women, I do not believe them to be incapable of doing such things.

**Montmorency** · 11-20-2015, 17:25

On the other hand, if there was a live agent (someone as of yet unknown to security or intelligence forces) waiting to trigger the explosion, then why get the fall gal into a situation in which police evacuate an area and approach her with extreme caution? Why not just move her into some crowded place and take another 10 or 20 civilians out. It would definitely exacerbate tensions coming so soon after the main attack.

As for the possibility that she was set up with time-locked or preprogrammed explosives long before time, well, I'm pretty sure only European terrorists or corporate megalomaniacs go for that sort of thing.

**Viking** · 11-20-2015, 17:31

Originally Posted by Husar

As much as I also have a soft spot for women, I do not believe them to be incapable of doing such things.

I am just starting to realise what kind of seriously radical people I am surrounding myself with here - thinking the unthinkable.

**Husar** · 11-20-2015, 18:12

Originally Posted by Montmorency

On the other hand, if there was a live agent (someone as of yet unknown to security or intelligence forces) waiting to trigger the explosion, then why get the fall gal into a situation in which police evacuate an area and approach her with extreme caution? Why not just move her into some crowded place and take another 10 or 20 civilians out. It would definitely exacerbate tensions coming so soon after the main attack.

As for the possibility that she was set up with time-locked or preprogrammed explosives long before time, well, I'm pretty sure only European terrorists or corporate megalomaniacs go for that sort of thing.

I assume the surprise, but I was more thinking of the other terrorist guy who died rather than some secret mastermind. The explosion may have blown the trigger out of the window or so. Seems more likely that she triggered it herself though, no argument from me.

Originally Posted by Viking

I am just starting to realise what kind of seriously radical people I am surrounding myself with here - thinking the unthinkable.

The radicals are everywhere, even talking about other radicals. I suggest you migrate to the US, that country is boringly average.

Also: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...fc930c5bc78829

**HopAlongBunny** · 11-20-2015, 18:41

It's the Popes fault.

http://wonkette.com/596232/pope-fran...r-on-christmas

**Brenus** · 11-20-2015, 21:06

"Remember - France is run by an aristocratic elite." I am now fully confident in your sources of knowledge and powers of analyse. For more insight, can you give the names of this elite?

**Gilrandir** · 11-20-2015, 17:34

Originally Posted by Husar

As much as I also have a soft spot for women, I do not believe them to be incapable of doing such things.

Ironically, women like that spot as hard as possible.

**Tuuvi** · 11-21-2015, 05:55

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

From my recollection, we armed Syrian rebels to undermine Assad, and Iran has been doing the same to us in Yemen. Also, the Syrian civil war was in large part driven by climate change causing a devastating drought from 2006 to 2009. You can't say that Assad screwed everything up by itself.

Yes but Assad has been receiving aid from Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, I doubt the aid the rebels receive from the US has been enough to prevent Assad from ending the war.

Climate change may have been a factor but the brutality and corruption of the Syrian government shouldn't be discounted either. And if Assad hadn't chosen to try quelling the uprising by shooting unarmed protesters the civil war might never have happened.

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Will ISIS ever be that strong? The impression I got is that they are starting to be forced back a bit now, for all their pretensions of being a state they're still a pretty lightly-armed army in the tens of thousands. Could they really fight a conventional war against a rival state?

Recently they've lost Shingal in Iraq, and al-Hasakah and al-Hawl in Syria. I think they've lost their momentum and are now on the defensive, their last major gain that I remember/heard about was Palmyra which was clear back in May. I've heard that most of the tanks and heavy weaponry they captured from the Iraqi Army have already been destroyed and I don't think they could ever take on the likes of Turkey or Iran.

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I just noticed this. Point of fact, the psychopathic rapist-killers don't care what you call them. Liberal clap trap, no doubt thought up by someone who has "the pen is mightier than the sword" embroidered on *his/her/their/its* free trade duvet.

Some people have been calling them Daesh already for a while now, it's the transliteration of their Arabic acronym.

**a completely inoffensive name** · 11-21-2015, 09:33

Originally Posted by Tuuvi

Yes but Assad has been receiving aid from Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, I doubt the aid the rebels receive from the US has been enough to prevent Assad from ending the war.

Climate change may have been a factor but the brutality and corruption of the Syrian government shouldn't be discounted either. And if Assad hadn't chosen to try quelling the uprising by shooting unarmed protesters the civil war might never have happened.

Recently they've lost Shingal in Iraq, and al-Hasakah and al-Hawl in Syria. I think they've lost their momentum and are now on the defensive, their last major gain that I remember/heard about was Palmyra which was clear back in May. I've heard that most of the tanks and heavy weaponry they captured from the Iraqi Army have already been destroyed and I don't think they could ever take on the likes of Turkey or Iran.

This is as close to "mission accomplished" since PVC [sorry, I keep forgetting your new name]. Look, if you want to reclaim the vast majority of ISIS territory, you will need a large force. The West cannot do it because it simply fuels more ISIS fighters and disorder. To be frank, even after Paris, the US does not have the will to tackle Iraq again for a long time. Russia and Iran cannot do it because the West wouldn't accept such a presence in the region. The only solution to ISIS that is permanent is for the Arab countries to get their hands dirty. And they won't.

I have not read any convincing argument in this thread that gives a long term solution for deescalating and deradicalizing the region. Hence why the person that makes the most sense is Monty and his assertion that the only way it will get better is for the area to turn into even more of a bloodbath.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 11-21-2015, 11:53

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

This is as close to "mission accomplished" since PVC [sorry, I keep forgetting your new name]. Look, if you want to reclaim the vast majority of ISIS territory, you will need a large force. The West cannot do it because it simply fuels more ISIS fighters and disorder. To be frank, even after Paris, the US does not have the will to tackle Iraq again for a long time. Russia and Iran cannot do it because the West wouldn't accept such a presence in the region. The only solution to ISIS that is permanent is for the Arab countries to get their hands dirty. And they won't.

I have not read any convincing argument in this thread that gives a long term solution for deescalating and deradicalizing the region. Hence why the person that makes the most sense is Monty and his assertion that the only way it will get better is for the area to turn into even more of a bloodbath.

I'm coming round to a boots on the ground solution. In Iraq, Western forces always had the toughest time in the big cities like Baghdad and Basra, neither of which are controlled by IS. Raqqa and Mosul are the only big urban areas they control (afaik) and would be much more manageable. Only about 20% of Iraq's population is Sunni and corresponds largely with the IS-controlled areas, and I remember reading there's about 8-10 million people in the IS across Iraq and Syria, compared to about 40m in Iraq or 18m in Syria.

Also, the Western public had no appetite for taking down Saddam, but that appetite is there for taking down IS. Plus even the Sunnis are less happy with IS than they were with Saddam.

**Crandar** · 11-21-2015, 12:11

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I'm coming round to a boots on the ground solution. In Iraq, Western forces always had the toughest time in the big cities like Baghdad and Basra, neither of which are controlled by IS. Raqqa and Mosul are the only big urban areas they control (afaik) and would be much more manageable. Only about 20% of Iraq's population is Sunni and corresponds largely with the IS-controlled areas, and I remember reading there's about 8-10 million people in the IS across Iraq and Syria, compared to about 40m in Iraq or 18m in Syria.

Also, the Western public had no appetite for taking down Saddam, but that appetite is there for taking down IS. Plus even the Sunnis are less happy with IS than they were with Saddam.

Well, they also control Ramadi and Falloujah. Also, I disagree with Basra and Baghdad being the most difficult to control Iraqi cities. Basra is clearly located in a Shia majority region and the only opposition were Shia partisans, like the Sadr Army.
Baghdad was the site of really lethal attacks, but it was mostly bombing against the Shias.

On the Contrary, Ramadi, the capital of Anbar is full of sunni extremists, while the US army paid a really big price to manage to control Falloujah, which was the first to be captured by ISIL.