IMMIGRATION thread

[Idaho]

The OP shows the very well reported exploits of a 30-50 strong group of people. Once called Al Majaroun, previously called Hisbutahir, and now called any number of things. They are total nutcases. They are operating in the East end 20 years ago doing the same things. It wasn't so newsworthy then. Over the last 20 years they have done loads of this stuff. More than is reported in the OP. Still doesn't impress me. And the fact that they are tolerated in the area is a sign of how inconsequential they are, not how effective they are.

I reckon I could walk round the east end of London every day for a year and do little more than laugh at them. It's a dramatic and exciting story and is eagerly received by a certain audience.

IA - you are intimidated by some young men in your area. That is unpleasant, and I personally would have picked up a brick and put it through the car window. I wouldn't, however, have come to the conclusion that we are living in end times. Get some perspective.

[Idaho]

Most of the news sources in the OP are second hand, anonymous or historical. I fail to see any evidence of no go zones. Except in the febrile imaginings of journalists and right wingers.

We don't have an actual place that's a no go zone still. Just rumours that there is one, and shadowy references to where it might be.

[rajpoot]

They do seem to exist in Sweden.
I remember Kadagar mentioned it in his 'goodbye' thread.

IA - you are intimidated by some young men in your area. That is unpleasant, and I personally would have picked up a brick and put it through the car window.

I was irresistibly reminded of this -

[Greyblades]

gah, double post.

[Greyblades]

Is that good enough for Idaho? No. But it'll be interesting to talk about.

Called it.

They do seem to exist in Sweden.
I remember Kadagar mentioned it in his 'goodbye' thread.

Wow, I knew it was bad but I under the impression they were unofficial;

Islam expert Andrew C. McCarthy has offered a lucid clarification of what no-go zones are and of what they are not:

"[N]o sensible person is saying that state authorities are prohibited from entering no-go zones as a matter of law. The point is that they are severely discouraged from entering as a matter of fact — and the degree of discouragement varies directly with the density of the Muslim population and its radical component. Ditto for non-Muslim lay people: It is not that they are not permitted to enter these enclaves; it is that they avoid entering because doing so is dangerous if they are flaunting Western modes of dress and conduct.

[Idaho]

You found a range of disparate and unclear examples on a topic of great media attention, all spread across many years. Damn right it's not good enough. Maxim of the scientific method: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your evidence isn't even ordinary.

[Greyblades]

You found a range of disparate and unclear examples on a topic of great media attention, all spread across many years. Damn right it's not good enough. Maxim of the scientific method: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Even Husar admits the existance of quote 'neighborhoods where the immigrant-inhabitants are not very nice to the police or even the "locals"' yet you find this Extraordinary?

Testimony from experts, quotes from sufferers, news reports of events and situations, all good enough for most but it's something you dont want to hear, so you dismiss it. What would be sufficient evidence for you? Video?

The article which I doubt you gave a glance outside what I quoted has an entire section full of them:

A video showing a group of Muslim men attacking a white couple in Walsall, situated just eight miles from Birmingham, can be viewed here. A video showing Muslim youth attacking white girls in Ashton-under-Lyne in Greater Manchester can be viewed here.

A video showing Muslim youth attacking police in East London with rocket fireworks can be viewed here. A video showing Muslim youth interrupting a television interview in Burnley in Lancashire can be viewed here. A video showing a Muslim threatening to kill a man filming street preaching in England can be viewed here.

A video showing Muslims attempting to enforce Sharia law on the streets of London can be viewed here. A video showing Muslims attacking an American student after walking around East London drinking a bottle of beer can be viewed here.

Or perhaps you would like a documentary from our very own BBC?:

A BBC documentary about "white flight" in the East London Borough of Barking and Dagenham can be viewed here. A BBC Panorama documentary about separation and segregation between Muslim Asians and white Britons in Blackburn in Lancashire can be viewed here, here and here. BBC reports on "white flight" in Luton can be viewed here and here.

A one-hour BBC documentary about extremism in Luton can be viewed here. A 20-minute documentary, entitled "London's Holy Turf War" can be viewed here. A 25-minute documentary about rising tensions between Asians and West Indians can be viewed here.

[Sarmatian]

Your evidence isn't even ordinary.

His evidence isn't even evidence.

[Idaho]

Andrew C. Mccarthy is a right wing nutjob. A self serving, book toting reactionary ball bag whose opinions I trust as much as Anjem Choudary's.

[Fisherking]

Andrew C. Mccarthy is a right wing nutjob. A self serving, book toting reactionary ball bag whose opinions I trust as much as Anjem Choudary's.

That is a matter of belief not supported by the data. Rather ad hominem attack which renders your argument invalid.

Use a bit of reason and logic for a change. Particularly if you try to cloak your self in maximums.

[Fisherking]

And now for something completely different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlSknRlQSqs

[Idaho]

You've linked to lots of videos of young men acting like a***h*les, but still not heard the name of an area that is "no go for non Muslims". Still waiting.

[Idaho]

I enjoyed being the lone voice against the afghan and Iraq invasions for reasons that are now obvious.

I enjoy being the lone voice against the current surge of ignorance and bubbling xenophobia.

[Fisherking]

You've linked to lots of videos of young men acting like a***h*les, but still not heard the name of an area that is "no go for non Muslims". Still waiting.

No, I only linked to one video of a guy crossdressing to prove a point.

British Police seem to think there are no-go areas or areas where one need heightened awareness, so I suggest asking an officer on the street. Pretending they don’t exist will not make them go away.

I wouldn’t call it xenophobia. That is a fear of all foreigners. Most people I have run across are more specific than that. They are mistrustful of Muslim immigrants. It wasn’t the case until the immigrants themselves began to call for Sharia Law to override their national or local laws. Something they rather brought upon themselves.

Of course there is some reason for concern in that if you believe in any form of civil liberties. Oh, and the concepts of Jihad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERou_Q5l9Gw

[Pannonian]

That is a matter of belief not supported by the data. Rather ad hominem attack which renders your argument invalid.

Use a bit of reason and logic for a change. Particularly if you try to cloak your self in maximums.

Idaho enjoys ad hominems when it doesn't affect his capacity to preach on what's going in east London from his home in Exeter. It's especially biting when he preaches thus to someone who actually lives in east London, unlike him.

[Idaho]

Idaho enjoys ad hominems when it doesn't affect his capacity to preach on what's going in east London from his home in Exeter. It's especially biting when he preaches thus to someone who actually lives in east London, unlike him.

Oh go on then. I tried to resist, but you've baited me into it. I lived in East London (Hackney) for 7 years. I visit London about once a month. I know it pretty well.

[Pannonian]

The OP shows the very well reported exploits of a 30-50 strong group of people. Once called Al Majaroun, previously called Hisbutahir, and now called any number of things. They are total nutcases. They are operating in the East end 20 years ago doing the same things. It wasn't so newsworthy then. Over the last 20 years they have done loads of this stuff. More than is reported in the OP. Still doesn't impress me. And the fact that they are tolerated in the area is a sign of how inconsequential they are, not how effective they are.

I reckon I could walk round the east end of London every day for a year and do little more than laugh at them. It's a dramatic and exciting story and is eagerly received by a certain audience.

IA - you are intimidated by some young men in your area. That is unpleasant, and I personally would have picked up a brick and put it through the car window. I wouldn't, however, have come to the conclusion that we are living in end times. Get some perspective.

I'm probably unlike you, in that I've actually walked around the east end of London. I didn't fear for my life the last time I did so, nor would I fear for my life if I do so today. However, in combination with the known radicalisation of Muslim youths around Europe, and the known ISIS strategy of forming bases away from the host state's eyes from which to plan terrorist attacks (and indeed, had already carried out one such successful attack), then it would be negligent and idiotic in the extreme to pooh pooh such concerns, in concert with all the other stuff going on.