IMMIGRATION thread

[Husar]

A more pertinent question is, do these supposedly inherent western values and rights override border controls?

Inherent? People died fighting for some of them. We pride ourselves on not discriminating on gender because it's not the womens' fault that they are physically weaker, but god beware if you were born on the wrong side of an imaginary line, then we'd rather watch you starve on the other side of that line than offer you a tent on our side. I simply think that this is a very strange world view that focuses so much on imaginary lines that people drew with a lot of greed and hatred in many, many wars. And before people drew such lines they believed that the bloodlines or tribes or whatever were the only way to divide them from their neighbors, that view turned out to be wrong. Yes, the romans, Greeks and a few others had different ideas long before that, but especially the Romans, which PVC likes so much, were apparently not afraid to have all kinds of different people within their borders as long as they followed certain laws, no?

In your view they probably do, since earlier you favoured forcibly imposing refugees/migrants on the UK, even though our existing agreements guarantee our borders. And also, you'd blamed the lack of policing of these refugees/migrants on Merkel being elected, with her policies of drawing down the police. Even though no one outside Germany had anything to do with electing Merkel.

I'd actually favor if "UK" were just an administrative region of a properly established democratic EU where we'd all get along, but that's a different topic and a pipe dream at this point. What I'm not sure about is what the lack of policing in Germany has to do with forcing immigrants on other countries. I also wouldn't say we should force them on other countries, I'm saying other countries may be very nasty countries for refusing to take them, it's a moral argument, yes. Poland for example is far worse than the UK though, the UK already has a huge amount of relatively recent immigrants.

In short, does Germany have the right to impose its views on the rest of Europe, as you've seemed to suggest? If the German people decide something is right, is it up to the rest of Europe to help pay the bill?

Again, much less imposing, more pointing out what I perceive as hypocrisy. Poland likes to whine that the UK didn't help it in the big wars or that Germany wants to have a pipeline around it so that Russia can screw Poland over more easily etc. but now it tells Syrians to go starve at the fence because Poland does not want to help them. Well, if you prefer a world where each nation minds its own business and only looks for its own benefit, don't whine about other nations doing it, too. And in that sense, why do you cry about Germany wanting to dominate Europe? Maybe it is our best interest and that's all that should matter to me? Why should I care the least bit about your concerns then? I'll just hope you'll be ruled by us soon for my own interests/benefit. Or do you believe all nation states can look for their own best interests without any collisions or harming the interests of other nations?

Everything will be ok if we pray more. Face it Husar Merkel is no longer sane.

I'm not entirely sure where this insanity stuff is from, maybe your bar for declaring people insane is incredibly low. You're free to disagree with her though.

Where's this quote from?

The Guardian article in post #1786.