Brexit Thread

**Greyblades** · 06-15-2016, 04:54

The Commonwealth is filled with people who are more culturally akin to us and in some cases already identify as British to a small historical degree, but because of the EU we have to shun most of them in favour of a political block that is increasingly beginning to include the peoples you describe who dont want to integrate and want to change thier host nation.

**Pannonian** · 06-15-2016, 09:41

Originally Posted by Greyblades

The Commonwealth is filled with people who are more culturally akin to us and in some cases already identify as British to a small historical degree, but because of the EU we have to shun most of them in favour of a political block that is increasingly beginning to include the peoples you describe who dont want to integrate and want to change thier host nation.

Most of our troublemakers are from the Commonwealth (Pakistan).

**Greyblades** · 06-15-2016, 09:56

As I said: "beginning", give it time; as turkey is let in and the migrants german has invited are made citizens and you will see an upswing in less than cooperative applicants, and we will be legally powerless to refuse them.

**Pannonian** · 06-15-2016, 10:32

Originally Posted by Greyblades

As I said: "beginning", give it time; as turkey is let in and the migrants german has invited are made citizens and you will see an upswing in less than cooperative applicants, and we will be legally powerless to refuse them.

Wasn't the UK the chief lobbier for the expansion of the EU to include Turkey? AFAIK we were the chief driver to include eastern Europe.

**Greyblades** · 06-15-2016, 10:40

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

**Pannonian** · 06-15-2016, 11:00

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

All painfully reminiscent of the arguments during the Scottish referendum, when the Scots were disgruntled over how they have little to no influence over the government they get in Westminster, as later further demonstrated in the 2015 GE. The Scots looked at the economic arguments and decided that spiting the English wasn't worth economically shooting themselves in the foot. It looks like we're going to decide otherwise with the EU.

**Greyblades** · 06-15-2016, 11:10

The English and the Scots have a 300 year history of nearly unparalleled success and occasionally even friendship tieing us together and they were economically incapable of surviving alone. The British and the EU are tied together by a 45 year history of decline, bitterness, subversion and occasional naked contempt for eachother, and we can most certainly survive alone.

And the foot's blown either way, either dramatically now or in a quieter 10 year decline.

**Elmetiacos** · 06-15-2016, 11:15

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

It's not as if all the politicians speak with one voice... voting a triumph for those well known anti-establishment mavericks Boris Johnson (Eton and Balliol, former Spectator editor, descendant of the Hannoverian royal family) Michael Gove (Oxford Union President, ex-BBC, chief toady to House Murdoch) not to mention privately educated former commodities broker Farrage, is only swapping one gang for a crazier one.

**Greyblades** · 06-15-2016, 11:21

An unbroken horse is better than one made lame.

They arent crazier, thats rather the point: the worst thing that happens is Boris gets in power and turns out to be Cameron 2.0, maybe he's exactly what we need to weather the storm, maybe he wont get in power at all as this is poised to end any semblence of coheisivness the Tories have.

We have the option to remove a Cameron 2.0 and undo what he does, we don't have that option with the EU comission, not in a peaceful manner anyway. And with the comission hanging around his neck Cameron 1.0 or anyone else in power is limited in what they are capable of changing to make things better, even if they want to.

**Kralizec** · 06-15-2016, 21:44

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Wasn't the UK the chief lobbier for the expansion of the EU to include Turkey? AFAIK we were the chief driver to include eastern Europe.

Yes, that is correct. France, the Netherlands and several other countries postponed the free movement of those "new EU workers" for several years, which was allowed at the time under EU law. Britain voluntarily decided against these measures and instantly became the favourite destination.
Since that happened during Tony Blair's run as Prime Minister and seeing as how he is widely disliked nowadays, this is of course no obstacle for Brexiteers to blame Brussels for everything.

Some people also need to educate themselves on the difference between a Visum and the ability to migrate somewhere...and the fact that for the UK it doesn't matter one toss to whom the EU offers a visum, because it's only valid for the Schengen area.

**Pannonian** · 06-15-2016, 22:26

Originally Posted by Kralizec

Yes, that is correct. France, the Netherlands and several other countries postponed the free movement of those "new EU workers" for several years, which was allowed at the time under EU law. Britain voluntarily decided against these measures and instantly became the favourite destination.
Since that happened during Tony Blair's run as Prime Minister and seeing as how he is widely disliked nowadays, this is of course no obstacle for Brexiteers to blame Brussels for everything.

Some people also need to educate themselves on the difference between a Visum and the ability to migrate somewhere...and the fact that for the UK it doesn't matter one toss to whom the EU offers a visum, because it's only valid for the Schengen area.

That's what I thought, that the we'd opted out of the free movement rule, that any such free movement was decided by the Downing Street government rather than by Brussels. But as Greyblades explained in an earlier post, his intention is to stick it to all politicians by means of Brexit, so it doesn't matter whether something Brexiters dislike is decided by Brussels or Downing Street; everything that is bad is blamed on membership of the EU.