Brexit Thread

[Greyblades]

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

[Pannonian]

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

All painfully reminiscent of the arguments during the Scottish referendum, when the Scots were disgruntled over how they have little to no influence over the government they get in Westminster, as later further demonstrated in the 2015 GE. The Scots looked at the economic arguments and decided that spiting the English wasn't worth economically shooting themselves in the foot. It looks like we're going to decide otherwise with the EU.

[Greyblades]

The English and the Scots have a 300 year history of nearly unparalleled success and occasionally even friendship tieing us together and they were economically incapable of surviving alone. The British and the EU are tied together by a 45 year history of decline, bitterness, subversion and occasional naked contempt for eachother, and we can most certainly survive alone.

And the foot's blown either way, either dramatically now or in a quieter 10 year decline.

[Gilrandir]

There will still be a Conservative government after the referendum, just one that will lurch to the right. As for "our" border controls, if that Conservative government really did think immigration was too high, was "out of control" then why did they let in another 188,000 non-EU immigrants? There is no way that the arch-free market politicians who are poised to take over from Cameron and Osborne would want to cut off a ready supply of cheap, wage suppressing labour.

So after Brexit you'll make another Brenter, and then yet another Brexit. Thus moving in and out you will bargain ever more advantageous conditions. So in a decade or so your shuttle policy will get into history books as a paragon of promoting national interest.

The English and the Scots have a 300 year history of nearly unparalleled success and occasionally even friendship tieing us together and they were economically incapable of surviving alone. The British and the EU are tied together by a 45 year history of decline, bitterness, subversion and occasional naked contempt for eachother, and we can most certainly survive alone.

Those emotions you find in the EU-UK relations were never absent from England-Scotland realtions either, and the deeper we go into history, the more controversial they were.

[Greyblades]

That depends if you make a differentiation between high and lowlanders and why I said occasionally even friendship, point being england and scotland relations have had thier highs and lows, (the highs usually coinciding with beating up the french) whereas the EU has just been lows and plateaus of ambivilence.

[InsaneApache]

Remainiacs, the gift that just keeps on giving.

After the 'emergency' budget was trashed this morning we have 'St' Bob Geldof sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen worried about their jobs and calls 'em wankers.

Keep it up lads. A multi-millionaire shitting on the little people.

[Elmetiacos]

Remainiacs, the gift that just keeps on giving.
After the 'emergency' budget was trashed this morning we have 'St' Bob Geldof sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen worried about their jobs and calls 'em wankers.
Keep it up lads. A multi-millionaire shitting on the little people.

Quoting from Chairman Farrage's Little Red Book... we all know what a class warrior Farrage is don't we, and how much he's always hated the millionaires and stood up for his fellow workers, just like the rest of that bastion of true Socialism, UKIP. The Brexiteers would be taking Orwellian doublethink to new heights - except of course, that we know they don't mean half of it. Sir Bob pointed out that despite being on the EU Fisheries Committee, Farrage attended one out of 43 of its meetings.

[Gilrandir]

I said occasionally even friendship,

I like it. Two peoples have lived in one country for 400 years and have developed only "occasional friendship". Way to go!

england and scotland relations have had thier highs and lows, (the highs usually coinciding with beating up the french)

Who was beating up the French? Certainly not the Scots - they have their Auld Alliance to revere, so relations between England and Scotland were not friendly at times of English-French wars, notably the Hundred Years War. Unless by "high relations" you mean hostilities.

whereas the EU has just been lows and plateaus of ambivilence.

An arbitrary statement. To my mind, the UK is the most special among the EU states and Cameron managed to negotiate even more concessions from the EU.

[InsaneApache]

Two peoples have lived in one country for 400 years

I think you'll find it's four.

[Greyblades]

I like it. Two peoples have lived in one country for 400 years and have developed only "occasional friendship". Way to go!

Considering that before we became one country we were constantly invading and massacring eachother for giggles, a long term tolerance and occasional friendship is outright loving in comparison. I was also being somewhat facetious, before the scottish independance referendum we havent had a major falling out since the jacobites in the 1700's and that was more a Scottish civil war which the English took the side of the Protestant Lowlanders against the Catholic Highlanders

Who was beating up the French? Certainly not the Scots - they have their Auld Alliance to revere, so relations between England and Scotland were not friendly at times of English-French wars, notably the Hundred Years War. Unless by "high relations" you mean hostilities.

...dude, go look up how many times we have fought the french, we've done it a lot, even after the 1707 act of union. Scratch that, especially after the 1707 act of union.

The Auld alliance ended in the 1500's.

An arbitrary statement. To my mind, the UK is the most special among the EU states and Cameron managed to negotiate even more concessions from the EU.

That would be if you consider the EU as a pact intended to create a federal government, when we joined it was with the understanding it was a free trade agreement and nothing more and with that context it becomes clear that we have been imposed upon incessantly.

[Elmetiacos]

Hence why I said i wanted to "make both Brussels and our own political parties, who have both screwed us in favour of the european project and/or themselves for the last 15-20/80 years, begin shitting themselves in panic."

I dont like our politicians, I do like how we have the option twice a decade of kicking them to the curb when they piss us off, that is more precious to me than a hundred dreams of a United Europe.

Depriving them of a retirement plan is good too.

It's not as if all the politicians speak with one voice... voting a triumph for those well known anti-establishment mavericks Boris Johnson (Eton and Balliol, former Spectator editor, descendant of the Hannoverian royal family) Michael Gove (Oxford Union President, ex-BBC, chief toady to House Murdoch) not to mention privately educated former commodities broker Farrage, is only swapping one gang for a crazier one.

[Greyblades]

An unbroken horse is better than one made lame.

They arent crazier, thats rather the point: the worst thing that happens is Boris gets in power and turns out to be Cameron 2.0, maybe he's exactly what we need to weather the storm, maybe he wont get in power at all as this is poised to end any semblence of coheisivness the Tories have.

We have the option to remove a Cameron 2.0 and undo what he does, we don't have that option with the EU comission, not in a peaceful manner anyway. And with the comission hanging around his neck Cameron 1.0 or anyone else in power is limited in what they are capable of changing to make things better, even if they want to.

[Beskar]

We have the option to remove a Cameron 2.0 and undo what he does, we don't have that option with the EU comission, not in a peaceful manner anyway. And with the comission hanging around his neck Cameron 1.0 or anyone else in power is limited in what they are capable of changing to make things better, even if they want to.

EU commissioners are appointed by the nation states. So the UK can easily remove one, and it is up to the other countries to remove theirs. Commissars work on behalf of the countries that appoint them.

[Greyblades]

And we have little influence over the others, we are but 1 in 28 despite our size making us more like 1 in 12, our economy 1 in 5, and our strength 1 in 2. If 15 of them agree to block us we are powerless to do anything.

[Husar]

And we have little influence over the others, we are but 1 in 28 despite our size making us more like 1 in 12, our economy 1 in 5, and our strength 1 in 2. If 15 of them agree to block us we are powerless to do anything.

You think you're as strong as 27 other EU people/countries?

edit: Terrible assassination, not exactly a way to defend democracy.

[Husar]

I claim victory for Britain.

Do you have a nuke?

No nuke no victory, you cant have one. That's the rules that I just made up, and I'm backing it up with this bomb, that was lent from the National Nuclear Security Administration.

I love Eddie Izzard.

The only one of you who could actually fire back at the same scale as us at this moment of time are the French so I stick to my assessment of us having strength equivilent of 1 out of 2.

Yes, I have a nuke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eapons_sharing

You forget three things:

1) We also still have US bases, including a hospital, we may get the codes faster than you think...or the US will obliterate you afterwards.

2) IF Russia doesn't feel threatened once you launch something in the direction of Poland and obliterates you first...

3) Poland has a missile shield.

[Kralizec]

Rest in Peace, Jo Cox.

And we have little influence over the others, we are but 1 in 28 despite our size making us more like 1 in 12, our economy 1 in 5, and our strength 1 in 2. If 15 of them agree to block us we are powerless to do anything.

A few problems with that:

- The UK is much more influential than you think in Europe, and often works together on issues with the Netherlands, the nordic countries, and assorted other countries depending on the subject.

- the parity you describe only applies to votes in the Council of ministers. And if it's an issue governed by qualified voting, it has to be 55% of the countries which represent at least 65% of the EU's population

- there's only real parity between the UK and countries like Malta in cases where voting in the Council has to be unanimous. And small countries are very careful in using their veto powers when the numbers are stacked against them. Under your logic, Germany could never be as influential as it is often perceived to be.

[Husar]

As the vote comes closer, civil war breaks out on the Thames:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewel...nbB#.il8VDbgGk

As for the fishermen, has anyone ever considered that they may be overfishing the waters without EU regulations? Much like it happened in the Mediterranean? Didn't the Somalian pirates mostly come up due to EU countries overfishing in Somalian and other countries' waters?
If so, cry me a river...

[Kralizec]

EU commissioners are appointed by the nation states. So the UK can easily remove one, and it is up to the other countries to remove theirs. Commissars work on behalf of the countries that appoint them.

That's not true, AFAIK. Commissioners are supposed to work for the benefit of all the member states. A state cannnot unilaterally withdraw "their" commissioner once he or she is in office. Allthough in practice, if he/she has lost favor it would generally be easy to persuade the president of the Commission to sack him or her.