Military coup in Turkey

[Husar]

Seems to be still going on with reports that Erdogan will soon land in Istanbul, it's like noone can decide yet who won...

What I find most disturbing, almost insulting, is how a lot of Erdogan supporters, and even Obama, seem to insinuate that Erdogan is the beacon of Turkish democracy. We can talk all day about how a military coup is not democratic, and I'd even agree, but placating Erdogan as some kind of poster child for democracy is just idiotic as well....

The guy closed all the free press he could find, tried to shut down social networks when they were used against him, suppressed corruption allegations against him and his family, built himself a big palace and allegedly even dealt with ISIS. Oh and he also tried to shut down criticism in Germany. If that is what counts as a democratic leader nowadays, then I can just say

[Pannonian]

Seems to be still going on with reports that Erdogan will soon land in Istanbul, it's like noone can decide yet who won...

What I find most disturbing, almost insulting, is how a lot of Erdogan supporters, and even Obama, seem to insinuate that Erdogan is the beacon of Turkish democracy. We can talk all day about how a military coup is not democratic, and I'd even agree, but placating Erdogan as some kind of poster child for democracy is just idiotic as well....

The guy closed all the free press he could find, tried to shut down social networks when they were used against him, suppressed corruption allegations against him and his family, built himself a big palace and allegedly even dealt with ISIS. Oh and he also tried to shut down criticism in Germany. If that is what counts as a democratic leader nowadays, then I can just say

Turkey lacks the liberal bit of liberal democracy.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Turkey lacks the liberal bit of liberal democracy.

So does America - that doesn't mean it can't be a Democracy full stop.

[Husar]

So does America - that doesn't mean it can't be a Democracy full stop.

It's more like a tyranny of the majority then, the point of a majority is that the minority is also at least heard and that there is a free press as part of the checks and balances and so on. Yes, the greek democracy was different, but we talk about a modern understanding of democracy. The US is not nearly as bad, they have a free press and an opposition that is allowed to talk and appear on TV etc.

I also entered a Turkish tweet into Google translate and it supports the last smiley of my last post...

President Erdogan in Istanbul . Armageddon greets a crowd of President Erdogan Airport.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The thing is, "Liberal Democracy" is apolitically charged term designed to imply that "Liberalism" is inherently Democratic, by which the people coining the term often mean high taxes, gender equality, secularism (in a strict sense), support for Gay marriage (maybe) etc. etc. Essentially the position of the "chattering classes" in Europe and the US.

That sort of outlook is what turns more conservative populations off democracy - they think it's a package deal that requires them to accept all these Left-Wing ideals at the same time.

[Pannonian]

So does America - that doesn't mean it can't be a Democracy full stop.

The US is possibly the most liberal state in the world. Americans are fanatical about the rights and freedoms and checks and balances guaranteed by their constitution and republic.

[HopAlongBunny]

I'm still reading conflicting reports about the coup.
Support within the military is hard to gauge; it seems questionable that the coup elements have the support (military and civil) to make the revolt stick.
P.S.
Liberalism and Democracy are a tension not a unity.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Still not finally resolved, but it appears that Erdogan is likely to retain power...or enhance it?

[Fragony]

Looks like it failed. Which would be a shame. Turkey is no ally, only the military is

Over 1500 soldiers arrested
29 colonels
5 generals

Turkish police must be the best in the world, can I say false flag