What Lives Matter?

[Legs]

If you had actually paid attention you would know that it was the Bureau of Justice statistsics who was that individual who says that 52% of murders between 1980 and 2008 were caused by black offenders.

If you werent lazy maybe you would actually back up your statements and not come off as a contrarian tit.

Bullshit.
If you were not lazy you would notice the difference between your two links.
"James" is the source you used not the DoJ

[Fragony]

Another attempt to dodge the issue.
An unrmed black man is far more likely to be shot by the police than an unarmed white man.

true

[Greyblades]

Bullshit.
If you were not lazy you would notice the difference between your two links.
"James" is the source you used not the DoJ

"James" used the doj, I got that link from the first link. Stop wasting my time.

[Husar]

The crime difference is probably because the blacks are all muslims.

[Legs]

"James" used the DoJ but used words with a different meaning.

[Husar]

Ok, so if they're not muslim, they're at least more likely to have elevated BLLs:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...verywhere-else

All the rest of the data on lead poisoning is exactly what you'd expect. Not only is it higher among blacks than whites, but it's higher in inner cities and it's higher among low-income families. And of course, this is on top of all the social problems these kids already have from being black, poor, and living in rundown neighborhoods.

Needless to say, lead didn't cause institutional racism. But lead sure made it worse. White children were severely affected by the postwar lead epidemic, but it produced nothing less than carnage among black kids. Before we finally got it under control in the late 80s, lead poisoning had created nearly an entire generation of black teenagers with lower IQs, more behavioral problems in school, and higher rates of violent behavior—which, as Wheeler says, feeds into already vicious stereotypes of African-Americans and the poor.

It's great to poison the people first, then blame all the resulting issues on them...
What I'm saying is you can stuff your blacks vs. whites crimes statistics into your lead-filled tinfoil hat!
They also don't disprove institutional racism in the slightest because the two problems are not mutually exclusive.

[Fragony]

Well a lot young black people die because of lead, a lot faster than from lead-poisining though. In problematic, and yes pioor, neighnourhoods the homocide-rate are really high. Gangs kill echother over nothing, sometimes just to prove their worth. That's not special to America, especially in Amsterdam lequidations between gangs are pretty common, sometimes with very heavy weapons, there are plenty of these from former yugoslavia. In Amsterdam it's mostly between Marrocans though

[Husar]

Well a lot young black people die because of lead, a lot faster than from lead-poisining though. In problematic, and yes pioor, neighnourhoods the homocide-rate are really high. Gangs kill echother over nothing, sometimes just to prove their worth. That's not special to America, especially in Amsterdam lequidations between gangs are pretty common, sometimes with very heavy weapons, there are plenty of these from former yugoslavia. In Amsterdam it's mostly between Marrocans though

Not quite the point: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknap.../#7732e60563b2

All of it points to one simple idea: violent crime rose as a result of lead poisoning because of leaded gasoline. It declined because of lead abatement policies.

There are three basic reasons why this theory should be believed. First, as Drum points out, the numbers correlate almost perfectly. “If you add a lag time of 23 years,” he writes. “Lead emissions from automobiles explain 90 percent of the variation in violent crime in America. Toddlers who ingested high levels of lead in the ’40s and ’50s really were more likely to become violent criminals in the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s.”

I wasn't saying that lead poisoning kills them but that it is very likely to have made them and still makes them more violent. See the lead poisoning in Flint for example, it often hits the poor much harder than the rich, too. Wealthier people are more likely to live in newer houses etc.

And yes, the Dutch have their criminals, too, who was denying that?

[Greyblades]

They also don't disprove institutional racism in the slightest because the two problems are not mutually exclusive.

You need to prove before you need to disprove.

The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.

[Fragony]

There have been a real liquidation wave lately, a big stash of cocaine has dissapeared, that's when it started. Everybody is blaming eachother, not 'normal' crime, we have never had something like this before

edit, @hussie

[Legs]

You need to prove before you need to disprove.

The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.

Unbelievable.

[AE Bravo]

So just because there's black on black crime it makes sense to dismiss their concerns about being victims of the state that is responsible for their protection. Yeah, don't waste your time with people who try to rationalize their irrational hate.

Continue with your miserable summers you non-racists.

[Fragony]

Unbelievable.

What's so wrong with what he says, these black life muppets love the idea that this is a black vs white thing. That most young blacks who get shot are shot by young blacks, not a fuck was given. Friend of mine was in New York and wanted to ask cops for direction, he wanted to pick his map and immeddiatly was looking at four guns directed at him, no he's not black

disclaimer, I saw the video a few weeks ago and that absolutily looks bad, there is no justification for shooting the guy who was already on the ground.

[Greyblades]

Unbelievable.

You have little imagination, and debate skills.

So just because there's black on black crime it makes sense to dismiss their concerns about being victims of the state that is responsible for their protection.

It makes sense to dismiss it when they constantly go on riots over the deaths of criminals but ignore the deaths of little girls.

Yeah, don't waste your time with people who try to rationalize their irrational hate.

Lazy.

Continue with your miserable summers you non-racists.

Reading about widespread Islamic mass rape and race bait fueled riots does tend to put a pallor on my holidy.

[Husar]

You need to prove before you need to disprove.

The US's black culture is self destructing, black people are killing eachother at rates that dwarf all other demographics and it is prone to distraction, reacting with riots when thugs are shot mid robbery but being conspicuously silent when thier children are killed by stray bullets from a gang conflict.

Wow, so much ignorance in such a small post.
You can't even prove that they're not doing anything when their kids are getting shot.
You ignore community work, efforts to stop children from joining gangs and lead poisoning and just post the worst racist drivel you could find, trying to pass it off as fact. You even try to dehumanize them by insinuating that they don't care if their own children die. That is despicable racist racist rubbish and nothing else, or dare you try to prove any of these allegations?
Here's a link to prove that your argument is full of racist drivel: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...olence/255329/

You always like to tell the other side that it needs proof but can't even prove your own arguments...
I already provided proof for the fact that the elevated crime and violence in poor black communities were caused by the greed, negligence and ignorance of the white majority, you have provided nothing but racist talking points!
As for your institutional racism proof: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

When juveniles hit the court system, it discriminates against blacks as well. Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts.

They're already getting sentenced harsher by the white majority when they are still children and racists falsely blame their mothers for not caring enough about the children...what a load of racist shit!

[Fragony]

What Greyblades says isn't racist at all, just an pretty obvious observation. Let's just look at 'ghetto culture', there is a lot of thoughtfull and poetic rap, but what is most about, bitches and hoes, lots of expensive cars and gold juwelry. Great role-models if life is already really hard. Black community needs some introspective instead of blaming everything on whiteboy.

[Husar]

What Greyblades says isn't racist at all, just an pretty obvious observation. Let's just look at 'ghetto culture', there is a lot of thoughtfull and poetic rap, but what is most about, bitches and hoes, lots of expensive cars and gold juwelry. Great role-models if life is already really hard. Black community needs some introspective instead of blaming everything on whiteboy.

That's just more "obvious" bullshit, because

a) I already proved his "observation" that black people don't care about their children getting shot by gangs wrong.

b) there are other ghetto cultures which are not black but also violent.

c) white greed poisoned them with lead, of course they are more aggressive, but it's not like they wanted that, chemistry just does that to them. Fix the stupid problems instead of letting the children of Flint and other cities continue to drink lead!

[Tuuvi]

This triangular dynamic among bully, victim, and audience is what I mean by the deep structure of bullying. It deserves to be analyzed in the textbooks. Actually, it deserves to be set in giant neon letters everywhere: Bullying creates a moral drama in which the manner of the victim’s reaction to an act of aggression can be used as retrospective justification for the original act of aggression itself.

Not only does this drama appear at the very origins of bullying in early childhood; it is precisely the aspect that endures in adult life. I call it the “you two cut it out” fallacy. Anyone who frequents social media forums will recognize the pattern. Aggressor attacks. Target tries to rise above and do nothing. No one intervenes. Aggressor ramps up attack. Target tries to rise above and do nothing. No one intervenes. Aggressor further ramps up attack.

This can happen a dozen, fifty times, until finally, the target answers back. Then, and only then, a dozen voices immediately sound, crying “Fight! Fight! Look at those two idiots going at it!” or “Can’t you two just calm down and learn to see the other’s point of view?” The clever bully knows that this will happen—and that he will forfeit no points for being the aggressor. He also knows that if he tempers his aggression to just the right pitch, the victim’s response can itself be represented as the problem.

: You’re a decent chap, Jeeves, but I must say, you’re a bit of an imbecile.

: A bit of a . . . what!? What the hell do you mean by that?

: See what I mean? Calm down! I said you were a decent chap. And such language! Don’t you realize there are ladies present?

And what is true of social class is also true of any other form of structural inequality: hence epithets such as “shrill women,” “angry black men,” and an endless variety of similar terms of dismissive contempt. But the essential logic of bullying is prior to such inequalities. It is the ur-stuff of which they are made.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/libr...bully-s-pulpit

[Hooahguy]

NOTICE TO ALL:

Personal attacks are never allowed, next time it happens the penalties will be severe.

[Greyblades]

It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.

Wow, so much ignorance in such a small post.
You can't even prove that they're not doing anything when their kids are getting shot.
You ignore community work, efforts to stop children from joining gangs and lead poisoning and just post the worst racist drivel you could find, trying to pass it off as fact. You even try to dehumanize them by insinuating that they don't care if their own children die. That is despicable racist racist rubbish and nothing else, or dare you try to prove any of these allegations?
Here's a link to prove that your argument is full of racist drivel: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...olence/255329/

You always like to tell the other side that it needs proof but can't even prove your own arguments...
I already provided proof for the fact that the elevated crime and violence in poor black communities were caused by the greed, negligence and ignorance of the white majority, you have provided nothing but racist talking points!

Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".

9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war: riots nowhere to be seen. Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. Peaceful protests.Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, Mobs targeting white people for beatings.

There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:





There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.

As for your institutional racism proof: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-...ur-way-of-life

They're already getting sentenced harsher by the white majority when they are still children and racists falsely blame their mothers for not caring enough about the children...what a load of racist shit!

I'm going to spoiler my dismantling of your article because it goes on for a bit.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?

"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour in the resultant children.

We go on "Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts."
"18 times more likely" comes from this which itself is quoting this which states

"An estimated 4,100 youth under the age of 18 were admitted to the nation’s state prisons in 2002. The majority (73%) of these new commitments were youth of color; 58% were African American, 10% were Latino, and 5% were youth of other races. As such, African American, Latino, and Native American youth had significantly higher prison admissions rates than White youth"

Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.

Then it goes on about college graduates pay and household values, not sure why that is there as it's due to the private sector which by definition is not institutional.

"A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop, and six times more likely to go jail than a white person. Blacks make up nearly 40 percent of arrests for violent crimes."
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.

"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.


"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.

"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.

"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.

A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.

That's just more "obvious" bullshit, because

a) I already proved his "observation" that black people don't care about their children getting shot by gangs wrong.

b) there are other ghetto cultures which are not black but also violent.

c) white greed poisoned them with lead, of course they are more aggressive, but it's not like they wanted that, chemistry just does that to them. Fix the stupid problems instead of letting the children of Flint and other cities continue to drink lead!

A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"

B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.

C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?

[Fragony]

lol@CNN guy, keeps interrupting and than says 'can you let me talk' Nice conversation but do I really have to be there kinda thingie, I would have walked away, that cop cannot even finnish a single sentence. Still better than Dutch 'quality media' though, no extra-warm lamp directed at his head to make him sweat. Yes they do that.

[Legs]

It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.

Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".

9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war: riots nowhere to be seen. Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. Peaceful protests.Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, Mobs targeting white people for beatings.

There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:





There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.

I'm going to spoiler my dismantling of your article because it goes on for a bit.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?

"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour in the resultant children.

We go on "Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts."
"18 times more likely" comes from this which itself is quoting this which states

"An estimated 4,100 youth under the age of 18 were admitted to the nation’s state prisons in 2002. The majority (73%) of these new commitments were youth of color; 58% were African American, 10% were Latino, and 5% were youth of other races. As such, African American, Latino, and Native American youth had significantly higher prison admissions rates than White youth"

Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.

Then it goes on about college graduates pay and household values, not sure why that is there as it's due to the private sector which by definition is not institutional.

"A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop, and six times more likely to go jail than a white person. Blacks make up nearly 40 percent of arrests for violent crimes."
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.

"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.


"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.

"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.

"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.

A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.



A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"

B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.

C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?

What a complete load of rubbish.
It is funny that you are trying to take apart Husars links when your own links have already made his point.
You really should read your links.

[Lizardo]

._.

[Husar]

It's odd that I find Husar calling me a racist less annoying than superuser and legs, I suspect it's because he actually puts some effort into it.

Note the context compared "conspicuously silent" with: "riots"
When the black communities witness one of their most vulnerable killed by a black thug the reaction are subdued; peaceful protests, marches, signs, but when a police man kills one of thier criminals the reaction is rioting and mass destruction. When compared the latter the demographic as a whole are indeed "conspicuously silent".

9 year old girl shot by stray bullet in gang war: riots nowhere to be seen. Mansur ball-bay shot pointing gun at police during drug den raid: Mass arson
Nine-year-old Tyshawn Lee targeted because of father's gang ties, lured into a South Side alley, executed. Peaceful protests.Sylville Smith shot fleeing police while carrying gun used in robbery: Mass Riots, Mobs targeting white people for beatings.

There is a clear double standard in scale of reaction in the black communities and the sad thing is that I learned of these, not by those "racist talking points" as you accuse me of using, but by black people themselves pointing it out:

Eh, no, it's pretty useless to riot or protest against the government in order to stop the problems in your own community.
Unless you are saying that you agree that the government should do more to stop lead poisoning of poor people and do more to raise everyone out of poverty. You also keep ignoring the fact that blacks protesting against racist police does not mean they ignore the problems of their own communities, I already posted a link that cirtes several marches and even your own link mentions this:

And next door, a lawn sign reads: "We Must Stop Killing Each Other."

Do you ignore this on purpose?

Hilarious, the guy is a Trump supporter and that's just his opinion anyway.

Great, I stopped when he basically said everyone who disagrees is an idiot. Sounds scientific, bro.

There is a reason I keep using the terms "black culture" and "black communities" instead of "black people", because I am fully aware that there are black people who find the disparity between the reactions as insane as I do.

So you only think of them as people when they agree with you?

Lets see, "Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children" "black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children." "about a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion."
Allready beginning with correlation fallacies, the links provided do in no way prove that it is racism that causes this, have you considered that there is a higher percentage of black children who commit crime than white children?

"That's racist" you say but you would be wrong. I do not blame thier race on this but thier practices: the Black community has has a massively higher rate of broken families than white familes, single parents make up 72% of black practices and single parentage has been frequently linked to bad behaviour in the resultant children.

Lol, yes, I have, so we have three possibilities:

A) Children with black skin do not commit more crimes than children with white skin -> In this case racism is still going on.

B) Children with black skin do commit more crimes than children with white skin -> Your explanation for this comes down to racism and poverty again, conditions the people with black skin colkor did not choose for themselves. The argument that they should have raised themselves by their own bootstraps in the few decades since segregation and so on ended are ludicrous, especially since racism in peoples' heads didn't end at the same time.

C) Mixture of A and B -> In this case the damning of A and B both apply and your excuse is still just racist propaganda.

Correlation not causation, "60% of children in prisons" also correlation, Black people in america are disproprtionately likely to commit crime, it is not surprising that they are prone to outnumber other races in statistics.
[...]
No comment on how many times the black population is likely to deserve jail or what percentage is responsable for violent crime.

Lol, hilarious, you keep saying correlation does not equal causation and then refer to statistics that correlate the number of sentenced or arrested people with how many crimes the people of that skin color actually commit. The problem is that your correelation does not prove causation either because if a racist police doesn't even check white people as much as it does black people, the correlation between actual crimes committed and the arrest statistics you base your argument on is for the trash can...
Didn't you complain about double standards above?

"Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found."
Quite the claim, how does the article support this?
"The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites."
Same rate of Traffic violations but no comment on other violations leaving the possibility that black people are arrested at a higher rate during traffic stops for different crimes. I think that chris rock covered this.

Yes, this absolutely explains incidents like this one:
Warning, video is graphic, but the picture already shows in what situation the officer fired.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/new...runs-away.html

Please explain to me why this man deserved to be shot and how there cannot possibly be a racist element to it.
You're already grasping at possibilities anyway, perhaps black people would be nicer to the police if they didn't know that the police target them due to their skin color in the first place.

"If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white."
No link or reference here, going by the rest of the article I am disinclined to believe this statment.

Because you like your racist fairytales:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-death-penalty

Second, the geographical anomalies: an analysis by the Houston Chronicle found that 12 of the last 13 people condemned to death in Harris County, Texas were black. After Texas itself, Harris County is the national leader in its number of executions. Over one third of Texas's 305 death row inmates – and half of the state's 121 black death row prisoners – are from Harris County. One of those African Americans, Duane Buck, was sentenced based on the testimony of an expert psychologist who maintained that blacks are prone to violence. In 2008, Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal resigned after sending an email message titled "fatal overdose", featuring a photo of a black man lying on the ground surrounded by watermelons and a bucket of chicken.

It would be evil and nasty to think racism could be involved, right?

"Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process."
Link here is to a website that provides no sources while claiming things like "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." Not exactly convincing stuff.

Oh yeah, you critical thinker are so hard to convince and the black people are all lying anyway.
I can see how much you'd like to find the truth because a simple google search turned up this, but I guess the BAR is not trustworthy either...
http://www.americanbar.org/publicati...selection.html

The documented and continued exclusion of people of color from juries is evidence of an acceptance of racial bias in too many courts across the United States today. Prosecutors who illegally exclude people of color from juries face few, if any, consequences or even public scrutiny.

"And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person." Considering that most murders are done by people of the same race as the victim this particular statistic actually seems to indicate that black people are under represented in death row.

Is it because of your racist argument that you can't see the point of this?

A lot of conjecture bias and really poor sourcing results in a poor article and an unproven point. The instuitution is not racist and it is depressing to witness people trying to shift every problem of the community on a boogy-man.

You mean like you can't prove shit and you keep trying to blame black people for all problems?

A) Apparantly "dont react near as much" means "dont care at all"

B) Seeing the state of the islamic ghettos in europe I have to agree.

C) Lead poisoning affected every black neighbourhood in the country but nowhere else?

[Greyblades]

Eh, no, it's pretty useless to riot or protest against the government in order to stop the problems in your own community.
Unless you are saying that you agree that the government should do more to stop lead poisoning of poor people and do more to raise everyone out of poverty. You also keep ignoring the fact that blacks protesting against racist police does not mean they ignore the problems of their own communities, I already posted a link that cirtes several marches and even your own link mentions this:


Do you ignore this on purpose?

...Do you ignore me on purpose? Not 10 lines amove in your post you quote me addressing the signs and protest, they are pitifully small when compared to the reaction whenever a cop kills anyone and even more pitiful when you know there is little difference in reaction between when the cops kill innocents or criminals.

Hilarious, the guy is a Trump supporter and that's just his opinion anyway.

His political affiliation is irrelevant, he is on the streets dealing with the situations on a daily basis and his opinion carries a lot more weight than Jeff Nesbit a man who pulls facts from dubious sources when not snatching them from the air, and likely hasnt set foot in a ghetto in his life.

Great, I stopped when he basically said everyone who disagrees is an idiot. Sounds scientific, bro.

What does his scientific credibility have to do with it? This is a black man calling out his fellows for behavior he sees as hypocrytical, if he hadnt I would not have been brough to the attention of said child slayings in the first place and the subsequent comparitively pathetic response from the community. I also have to point out how hypocrytical you are being complaining about him accusing everyone who disagrees as an idiot when you are prone to do the same with the term "racist".

So you only think of them as people when they agree with you?

That would be your schtick.

B) Children with black skin do commit more crimes than children with white skin -> Your explanation for this comes down to racism and poverty again, conditions the people with black skin colkor did not choose for themselves. The argument that they should have raised themselves by their own bootstraps in the few decades since segregation and so on ended are ludicrous, especially since racism in peoples' heads didn't end at the same time.

I look forward to seeing you try link thier proven propesnsity towards single parent houshold and poverty, a state shared by other demographics with stronger familial ties.
As for my answer:
D) the black community has fostered a culture of noncooperation and criminal glorification that produces children with a severe distrust and disregard for authority that is exacerbated by internal pressures towards self segrigation (the whole "no snitch rule") , rather like a certain other demographic here in europe.

Lol, hilarious, you keep saying correlation does not equal causation and then refer to statistics that correlate the number of sentenced or arrested people with how many crimes the people of that skin color actually commit.

The whole thing about correlation not causation is that mr nesbit keeps failing to actually prove the stats are so because of racism and not for some other reason. Here I am pointing out a lack of statistics indicating that the black arrests were unsubstantiated which would actually indicate racism instead of the inevitable consequenses of a demographic with a higher crime rate to everyone else.

Yes, this absolutely explains incidents like this one:
Warning, video is graphic, but the picture already shows in what situation the officer fired.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/new...runs-away.html

Please explain to me why this man deserved to be shot and how there cannot possibly be a racist element to it.
You're already grasping at possibilities anyway, perhaps black people would be nicer to the police if they didn't know that the police target them due to their skin color in the first place.

A) prove that was racially motivated
B) prove that such behaviour is widespread among police
C) prove that such behavior is condoned by the institution.
Then you can use it as proof of institutionalised racism. Going by the fact that the cop is due to go on trial for murder in october the last one will require one hell of a stretch.

Also how is that a rebuttal to a comment on the frequency of stop and search arrests?

Because you like your racist fairytales:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-death-penalty
It would be evil and nasty to think racism could be involved, right?

Hmm, lets see the only out and out racism I can see is that prosecutor, the one that had his racist case struck down and himself forced to resign after a racist email, system seems to be working there.

Then you have the courts trying to keep thier right to dismiss black jurors who are statistically less likely to give the death penalty for convicted murderers of white people, somewhat less air tight as it points to the victim's race not the perp being what influences the death penalty. The joys of the jury system: the more the jury sympathises with the victim the harsher he sentance, and people tend to sympathise with strangers of similar race. So what's to say; white people care too much about the deaths of whites or blacks care too little, and vice versa?

To solve this I think that this shows we should be filling the juries with none of the ethnicities of victim or murder, or abolish the death penalty alltogether, either would work.

The rest of the guardian article is statistics; 56% of death row inmates are black or Hispanic, African-Americans are 27% of the population, yet comprise 63% of the prisoners, same parroting of stats that look like they imply mass false arrests until you find out the crime rates.

Turns out fairy tale is a good descriptor, as it has a similar proprotion of fact to fiction and is equally relevant to modern times.

Oh yeah, you critical thinker are so hard to convince and the black people are all lying anyway.
I can see how much you'd like to find the truth because a simple google search turned up this, but I guess the BAR is not trustworthy either...
http://www.americanbar.org/publicati...selection.html

That article is written by Bryan Stevenson, the same guy who owns the EJI aka the website hosting the source in the article you used, and the one I was quoting. It does not surprise me that he is telling the same story here as on his own website.

He's still not using sources.

Is it because of your racist argument that you can't see the point of this?

"77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person" does not say that the 77% or the 13% are black or white, but statistics based on the precentage of same race crimes in each indicates the opposite of what you and your articles are trying to say it means.

You mean like you can't prove shit and you keep trying to blame black people for all problems?

Funny, I could have sowrn I was thinking something similar about you when we were debating the brexit.

My assessment of the black community's performance is based on a lack of evidence of negative outside interference, evidence you have failed to produce, and an assumption of agency: that they are not incapable of making things better for themselves. To agree with you from my point of view would be to assume that black people are incapable of bettering themselves and need outside handling to prosper, which is more racist a viewpoint than anything that has been said in this thread.

What a complete load of rubbish.
It is funny that you are trying to take apart Husars links when your own links have already made his point.
You really should read your links.

You should really make your argmuents instead of making claims. Maybe you could start with which of my links "already made his point".

[Husar]

...Do you ignore me on purpose? Not 10 lines amove in your post you quote me addressing the signs and protest, they are pitifully small when compared to the reaction whenever a cop kills anyone and even more pitiful when you know there is little difference in reaction between when the cops kill innocents or criminals.

Yes, because making the validity of an argument dependant on the comparative sizes of protest signs is getting so ridiculous that I don't want to waste any more time discussing this.

[Fragony]

I feel sorry for Greyblades who patiently tries to point out the hypocracy

[Husar]

I feel sorry for Greyblades who patiently tries to point out the hypocracy

I'm very sorry but I'm afraid to continue to the point where I have to buy a program that can prove the size of protest signs on a picture on the internet is appropriate for the severity of the event that sparked the protest.
It's getting a bit too expensive for me at this point.
I'm also not really into wasting my time on wild goose chases while Greyblades dismisses all sources as biased based on his "feelings" that they just can't be right...

You know, my "feelings" tell me that continuing the discussion here ends up being an enormous waste of time that I will regret later because that is how similar discussions ended in the past. Stupid is when you do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results...C'est la vie...

[Legs]

You should really make your argmuents instead of making claims. Maybe you could start with which of my links "already made his point".

In your "James" link. Two studies.
One agrees completely with Husar.
One doesn't.
Both show you to be totally wrong though.

Little bit of advice for you , if you want to post a link to support your then views read the bloody thing first.

[Fragony]

I'm very sorry but I'm afraid to continue to the point where I have to buy a program that can prove the size of protest signs on a picture on the internet is appropriate for the severity of the event that sparked the protest.
It's getting a bit too expensive for me at this point.
I'm also not really into wasting my time on wild goose chases while Greyblades dismisses all sources as biased based on his "feelings" that they just can't be right...

You know, my "feelings" tell me that continuing the discussion here ends up being an enormous waste of time that I will regret later because that is how similar discussions ended in the past. Stupid is when you do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results...C'est la vie...

Who needs studies, studies are often conclusions on demand when things get political.