Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't think Stork is scum, but given how he's acted today, I can't blame anyone for voting him and I wouldn't care much if he died.

To conclude, I also think that Riedquat should be destroyed, and I'm rather upset he doesn't have any votes on him right now. Allow me to rectify that.

Vote: Riedquat

I don't think Riedquat is scum based on his day one. I don't think this is really choxorn's best guess. His total contribution today is also below his own standards.

Vote: Choxorn

And I wouldn't be alone if I voted him ^

[Choxorn]

I don't think Riedquat is scum based on his day one. I don't think this is really choxorn's best guess. His total contribution today is also below his own standards.

Good for you. I disagree, and think that Riedquat is totally scum for how he acted on day one, for all the reasons that I explained yesterday.

I also think Newyn is kinda scummy. No real reads on anyone else, though.

[Renata]

Well, Stork liked your Riedquat post yesterday. You have that going for you.

GH has given plenty to talk about, atheotes, Stork, Monty, me, Pizza ... really zero reads?

[El Barto]

I don't think Stork is scum, but given how he's acted today, I can't blame anyone for voting him and I wouldn't care much if he died.

To conclude, I also think that Riedquat should be destroyed, and I'm rather upset he doesn't have any votes on him right now. Allow me to rectify that.

Vote: Riedquat

I tend to agree. And I owe him for lynching my shiny metal ass two games ago. vote: Riedquat

Maybe I'll just flip a coin.

FTFY.

Newyn isn't particularly jumpy.

Newyn strikes me as a particularly measured, deep thinking, not reveal your cards until the right moment, kind of player. As either alignment.

As town, he is uncannily like me: Will lie and create gambits that help town. However, he will do it in 10,000 fewer words, which makes it more effective.

As scum, I can figure out his plan. I can even explain his plan to you. But his plan will still work.

That's Newyn in a nutshell. I would love to town clear him. I don't know how to do that, but it would be a very strong move. If he lynches scum repeatedly, then him not being dead at final 3 should be a clue. But he should eat a murder instead by then.

If that helps you read him, great, if you have a better read on him than I do currently, and my experience with him is what he's playing into, then I apologize in advance.

Why don't you just vote him already, instead of hinting at the possibility of voting him?
FFos: Askthepizzaguy

(fish finger of suspicion doesn't break the counter script, right?)

[Askthepizzaguy]

In the context of my post, there isn't an indication that I even think he's scum. You did read my post before responding to it, I hope.

[atheotes]

I have been reading but somehow i feel like there is not much to look at.
Maybe i have to take another look later.
One thing i feel odd is the "vote with your town reads" logic. I think it is scummy tactic...atleast at this stage of the game.

[El Barto]

In the context of my post, there isn't an indication that I even think he's scum. You did read my post before responding to it, I hope.

Yes, and it is delightfully ambiguous.

[seireikhaan]

Oooookay, in summary, let's summarize:


Renata: Pretty friendly, much appreciated. Nice to see a recognizable face around. Could be the difference of 4-5 years, my advancing age, rampant alcoholism, or the PTSD of losing my Pokemon Moon nuzlocke team to the champion, but she seems a decent bit chattier than I remember for this early on. Reading the thread blind and knowing nothing about them, I liked the case against DP and would not fault people for voting for him. Mild town lead, seems a bit too chatty overall for mafia is my gut.

Stork: Something seems off here. Is english your first language? Tone and text are confusing me a bit. Tends to post in batches, which could be an excuse to appear visible without having to decide things at EOD. Discussion of Scarlett Aria kill is complete WIFOM and totally pointless as a defense. Mild, leaning to strong, scum lean.

Askthepizzaguy: Like I can read this guy. My best chance at deciphering pizza is with LYLO shenanigans. Next.

El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next.

Bsmith: Currently afk-ish in the Phillipines on business. Try to enjoy yourself if you can, and watch out for army majors. Anyways, not a ton to read on. Early joke on Al Sips, who I have some suspicion towards, raises a small flag, but that's about as much as I have. Slightly scum lean.

Monty: Both his original case and wanting to save DP(who he apparently can read better than me) seem authentic in my opinion. Could be a case of maf trying to build cred by "trying" to save a doomed townie, but that seems less likely(maybe 30-40% chance) than he simply had a better read on DP than those not familiar with him. That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad? Clarification? Could be looking to get on a convenient wagon. Unsure lean, d1 seems likelier town, d2 confusing that.


Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.


Zack: Decent enough case on Newynn on day 1 and pursued it appropriately if he felt decently about it. I tend to agree with most of the posts he's made except on possible Stork Scum which might be a troubling sign. @Zack explanation for current day's vote? Decent town lean.

Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster. Gave a basic recount of his accusation of Riedquat's D1 post on D2, but it feels to me like the kind of thing I do on occasion as mafia where I just latch on to one bad post from someone relativley under the radar to get "free" votes off. Strong scum lean.

Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean.

Atheotes: Early discussion of NK choice - possible maf trying to create false lead on his own kill? Hmm... Tone reads town, however, decent convicition in lynch choice. Read - null.

Riedquat: Goof vote on day 1, THE HORROR. On the surface, seems clearly scummy and lackadaisical. Well, one of those is true at least. Post asking himself to by lynched on day 2 is too much. Too aggressively off the wall. Strong town lean.

[seireikhaan]

Vote: Choxorn, based on my above post.

[Al Sipsclar]

Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.

Hmm... Is khaan trying to convince me to move my vote? Hmm. Probably not.

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

[Montmorency]

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

You have to have one to see one have one to see one.

[seireikhaan]

Hmm... Is khaan trying to convince me to move my vote? Hmm. Probably not.

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

Eh, not totally incorrect. Much like most tells and behaviors, it's easier to tell when you've done the blunder yourself. Definitely guilty of it in the past at points.

[Choxorn]

[QUOTE=seireikhaan;2053726575]
Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster.

I wasn't voting him for low posting, I was voting him because I thought his no lynch vote was bad, his reaction to my voting him was worse, and he looked like he was trying too hard to avoid ruffling any feathers.

[Renata]

Glad to see you, choxorn.

[Renata]

Khann's catch-up post, otherwise known as Exhibit A why I think he's mafia.

Oooookay, in summary, let's summarize:


Renata: Pretty friendly, much appreciated. Nice to see a recognizable face around. Could be the difference of 4-5 years, my advancing age, rampant alcoholism, or the PTSD of losing my Pokemon Moon nuzlocke team to the champion, but she seems a decent bit chattier than I remember for this early on. Reading the thread blind and knowing nothing about them, I liked the case against DP and would not fault people for voting for him. Mild town lead, seems a bit too chatty overall for mafia is my gut.

Stork: Something seems off here. Is english your first language? Tone and text are confusing me a bit. Tends to post in batches, which could be an excuse to appear visible without having to decide things at EOD. Discussion of Scarlett Aria kill is complete WIFOM and totally pointless as a defense. Mild, leaning to strong, scum lean.

Tangential comment -- Another Stork scum read, and I guess calls into question my lessening my scum read on Newyn for doing the exact same thing.

Askthepizzaguy: Like I can read this guy. My best chance at deciphering pizza is with LYLO shenanigans. Next.

El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next.

Bsmith: Currently afk-ish in the Phillipines on business. Try to enjoy yourself if you can, and watch out for army majors. Anyways, not a ton to read on. Early joke on Al Sips, who I have some suspicion towards, raises a small flag, but that's about as much as I have. Slightly scum lean.


Monty: Both his original case and wanting to save DP(who he apparently can read better than me) seem authentic in my opinion. Could be a case of maf trying to build cred by "trying" to save a doomed townie, but that seems less likely(maybe 30-40% chance) than he simply had a better read on DP than those not familiar with him. That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad? Clarification? Could be looking to get on a convenient wagon. Unsure lean, d1 seems likelier town, d2 confusing that.


Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.

While I can see Al Sips as scum, I cannot see Al Sips as scum for almost any of these reasons. That raises a red flag for me. It's the opposite of a mind-meld.

Zack: Decent enough case on Newynn on day 1 and pursued it appropriately if he felt decently about it. I tend to agree with most of the posts he's made except on possible Stork Scum which might be a troubling sign. @Zack explanation for current day's vote? Decent town lean.

I feel like 'decent town lean' for someone who's voting on you requires a little more self-convincing than this. At least there should be a reason. Explanation? It was clear enough. He didn't like a few of GH's comments, right before he voted. This is a weirdly unfocused question, under the circumstances.

Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster. Gave a basic recount of his accusation of Riedquat's D1 post on D2, but it feels to me like the kind of thing I do on occasion as mafia where I just latch on to one bad post from someone relativley under the radar to get "free" votes off. Strong scum lean.

Strong scum lean on a guy who's done basically nothing out of the ordinary for him and nothing different from what half the game has done at least once so far at that? And it just so happens to be a strong scum lean on the guy he needs to vote to self-pres? (And who happened to be town at that, something I was actually expecting after reading this post!) This is the 'read' that made me go 'yeah right' last night.

Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean.

Another red flag. "Those latching onto this case" include me, Zack, Bsmith. That's it. He's given town reads to me and to Zack. So who's the 'those'? There is no 'those',is there? It just sounded logical in your head.

Atheotes: Early discussion of NK choice - possible maf trying to create false lead on his own kill? Hmm... Tone reads town, however, decent convicition in lynch choice. Read - null.

Riedquat: Goof vote on day 1, THE HORROR. On the surface, seems clearly scummy and lackadaisical. Well, one of those is true at least. Post asking himself to by lynched on day 2 is too much. Too aggressively off the wall. Strong town lean.

But it's not too much for Al Sips, who did the same exact thing?

This is a fairly well put together post in places, but the rest is a three-alarm fire.

[BSmith]

vote: khaan

[Riedquat]

I tend to agree. And I owe him for lynching my shiny metal ass two games ago.

What are you playing at? You weren't lynched, you got killed and not by me...

[Montmorency]

That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad?

GH only gave a very terse and noncommital response directly to questions over the DP lynch. He has talked about not much else. On its own not enough for me to hound him, but it did nothing to build confidence with regard to my particular argument for why his pushing the DP lynch could make him scummy.

Let's put that aside - GH couldn't commit because of whatever, and he needed a sub to step in - and start over.

So let me put my case afresh to you, Khaan/GH (without yet much adjustment from early form or newer considerations):

DP101 is a new player on the Org and in the other recent games he has been the clearest consensus town-read player. He continued that performance into this game, but with the twist that from early D1 votes from Choxorn (who later jumped around from there) and a firm attack from GH made DP101 the dominant wagon and discussion of the day. I found this to be premeditated, because a Day 1 blitzkrieg is a time when it is relatively easy to get a specific person lynched without a lot of effort or repercussions. By setting the tone for the day, Choxorn and/or GH did indeed accomplish this without having to lay down the line very much. The motivation for a quick removal of DP101 would simply be that he was most likely to wind up lock town for many players, and unkillable while other night targets remained through to LYLO.

[Riedquat]

Unvote

Vote: Choxorn

[seireikhaan]

GH only gave a very terse and noncommital response directly to questions over the DP lynch. He has talked about not much else. On its own not enough for me to hound him, but it did nothing to build confidence with regard to my particular argument for why his pushing the DP lynch could make him scummy.

Let's put that aside - GH couldn't commit because of whatever, and he needed a sub to step in - and start over.

So let me put my case afresh to you, Khaan/GH (without yet much adjustment from early form or newer considerations):

DP101 is a new player on the Org and in the other recent games he has been the clearest consensus town-read player. He continued that performance into this game, but with the twist that from early D1 votes from Choxorn (who later jumped around from there) and a firm attack from GH made DP101 the dominant wagon and discussion of the day. I found this to be premeditated, because a Day 1 blitzkrieg is a time when it is relatively easy to get a specific person lynched without a lot of effort or repercussions. By setting the tone for the day, Choxorn and/or GH did indeed accomplish this without having to lay down the line very much. The motivation for a quick removal of DP101 would simply be that he was most likely to wind up lock town for many players, and unkillable while other night targets remained through to LYLO.

Alright. I don't really agree with it of course, but I at least get where you're coming from. Still, not knowing how DP plays, my blind read into the game was that he was a pretty decent lynch choice on day 1.