Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

[Renata]

And great, nobody's here. And nobody's going to be here, because I'm probably in Monty's pocket and nobody else cares. If I'm wrong about everyone, please don't blame me. I'm doing my best.

[Renata]

I have to believe BSmith is town. He's been doing nothing but sheeping me since day one, hardly even any commentary. If he's mafia, it worked, but it's so disrespectful to the game IMO to play scum like that and I seriously hope he wouldn't do it. I will actually be upset to lose to that kind of tactic.

I'll check him along with everyone else when I get that far, but I don't think my opinion will change.

[Renata]

All day three votes, in order, coming right up if I can figure out the stupid multiquotes. It keeps glitching out on me. Here's the first bunch.

Good morning, Pizza!

vote: Askthepizzaguy

For being a scumbag.

Hi Renata.

I've followed this somewhat up to GH being replaced. From that, Zack and Stork were very obviously town. Too bad that's not news anymore. Also, Pizza looks extremely scummy to me.

Vote: ATPG

Oh yeah DP was also obvtown.

Will you vote Khaan with me, novice? Come on, I know you can.

vote: Seireikhaan

Vote: atheotes

Best case against Pizza. I missed it and I even cited scum-Pizza's shading of DP in the last game.



Next-best case against Pizza.

Adding to an earlier comment, I suggest that if Khaan is actually town, then Pizza's first vote of today (on Atheotes) makes Atheotes likely as a scum. Pizza breadcrumbs partners with his initial votes when he becomes center of attention, I think.

Vote: Pizza

What Riedquat/novice did wasn't pristine, but I don't think a scum novice would pick out that fact about Pizza's D1 presentation. Hardly even makes sense if novice had been following the game expecting to sub in for scum, which is a silly thought itself.

....Ow? Mind elaborating?

Vote: Al Sipsclair

I'm sticking to my guns for now. Sips has been mostly inactive and seems content to just try and rebound fire against himself.

[Renata]

A few more.

vote: khaan

Your ass and posterity… OK.

I was only looking through their posts, nobody else's.

He did it two games ago when I was Flexo the unkillable proven townie.

Lacking better leads and proper sleeping hours, vote: Montmorency.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Not going to respond to Pizza's accusations. I've lived an empty space and I'll die the empty space. I don't believe a town Pizza would not read me as town this game.

We're not, but we can revisit that if Khaan flips scum.



Reading your Exhibit A post I tend to agree. It still feels like not lynching Pizza while there is support for it is a mistake though. I agree that Renata is top townie currently, and if she's scum she's very confident in so off-handedly claiming that. So I guess the onus is on you, Renata. If you insist on Khaan as today's lynch I'll sheep you.

Vote: Khaan


That's not very productive.


Very true. As Pizza said, that is undoubtedly the worst vote of the game.*

*OK I guess my/Riedquat's Choxorn vote is bad also, but as a neutral observer it was Atheotes' vote that I noticed.

Worst case, Khaan is town, Pizza kills Renata tonight, takes control. Pizza has little to say about Khaan, and he's preparing a soft landing for himself tomorrow.

Pizza-atheotes, or Pizza-Khaan? Pizza shouldn't ignore a partner while under heavy suspicion himself, no less putting up a third partner for the lynch. I think any Al Sipsclar scum pairings with Pizza are much less likely.

I'm going to venture Barto as a general third-candidate for scum team.

Unvote: Pizza

Vote: Khaan

I'll finish what I started, but if the wagon collapses then I hope it doesn't migrate to Al Sipclar over Pizza.

Vote: Aetheotes
Sheeping Pizza for better or worse. I've been distracted too much by other stuff lately to pay too much attention.

[Renata]

More.

vote: Atheotes

I'm taking myself out of the picture for a while. Sick of people laying off their votes on me.

Unvote: atheotes
Vote: Al sipsclar

If we can get the vote movement that way, otherwise I go back.

vote: Al Sipsclar

Can't believe I'm doing this. But we need both options.
@novice -- why was scum vig your working theory?

Renata, I mean, where are you headed with your vote. I'm not following you off Pizza/Khaan.
(If I were, my third preference would be Atheotes.)

Reading Pizza's day two I see nothing leading up to a Zack vigging.

Vote: Pizza

Time to rally.

Unvote: Khaan

Vote: Pizza

Vote: Pizza

I've been more paranoid about Zack and Stork than most of the thread and I don't see myself shooting either of them as a one shot vig over multiple other people that I think would have given more information.

[Renata]

The rest, including one non-vote post I'm too tired to remove.

I cant shake the feeling that pizza is scum. the fact that he has claimed 1-shot gives me pause.
He chose to shoot Zack, whom he has claimed he was unable to read. I cant understand the choice.

We are 10 alive now.
if we have 4 scum - mislynch today and game over possibly. it doest make sense unless there are some town PRs that can reduce kill power or atleast aid in catching scum.
But we have a claim for additional kill power and 1-time limited save.
It makes me believe that we have 3 scum with an additional 1 shot kill ability.
Vote: Pizza

Where I'm at:
I think Pizza is lying but there's one thing I can't ignore - BSmith and El Barto have been off wagon literally every day.
Could we be completely wrong and be in a situation where we've had V/V wagons 3 days in a row with BSmith and El Barto avoiding everything to not attract attention?

Alright. Let's make this interesting. vote: Al Sips

Vote: Al Sipsclar

[Renata]

I mean, Newyn's equity to being Pizza's partner here is huge, never mind any of the other connections such as Pizza constantly deflecting from giving a real read on him. Even with my vote on Al Sips (along with Pizza and Khaan), Pizza was going to be lynched. Newyn piles on the end of that wagon with nothing resembling a read, just the idea that Pizza's vig made him likely scum. When if anything the logic should go the other way around, as indicated by BSmith in a post just before BSmith switches votes.

IMO Newyn is bussing, here. Look at what's the next thing he does after that vote (I included it in the post): set up BSmith and El Barto as possible mislynches for the next day, assuming Pizza flips mafia.

And then of course, after BSmith's vote change makes it possible, all of a sudden Newyn's willing to give Pizza the benefit of the doubt, and saves him.

[Renata]

And I didn't even mention that earlier in the day (when Khaan was leading and Pizza's wagon was fading), Newyn voted with Pizza on atheotes.

So I don't know. Convince me I'm wrong.

[Montmorency]

Or, you were bussing Pizza.

By now, you've kept letting Khaan slip away, and put him in a position where by dint of UTR he hasn't had to make any serious moves or contributions. Meanwhile, Newyn has made only bad moves and I find it hard to believe he had no alternatives.

I'll put it straight: lynch Khaan, and then we'll talk about final arrangements. It's not going to happen without your vote, but Newyn's lynch won't happen without mine.

Vote: khaan

[Montmorency]

Newyn voted with Pizza on atheotes.

That would have been part of his surefire scum strategy of 'I have to play like Pizza is town or I'm doomed'. It's difficult to see him as scum serially incriminating himself for no good reason or gain.

[Renata]

Or, you were bussing Pizza.

By now, you've kept letting Khaan slip away, and put him in a position where by dint of UTR he hasn't had to make any serious moves or contributions. Meanwhile, Newyn has made only bad moves and I find it hard to believe he had no alternatives.

I'll put it straight: lynch Khaan, and then we'll talk about final arrangements. It's not going to happen without your vote, but Newyn's lynch won't happen without mine.

Vote: khaan

You don't have to sell me on Khaan's scumminess, you have to sell me on you. Make your best case. You were back and forth a bit on Pizza and Khaan -- make me feel it.

[Renata]

Khaan was lead on the Al Sips wagon on day three, ignoring Pizza completely, and on day four just voted for me with no reasoning given at all, so if we're looking at doing obviously bad things as mafia I'm not sure one of them has a leg up on the other.

[Renata]

vote: Seireikhaan

This is stupid (of me). If you're mafia, gg. You've been hitting me as town in little tiny ways the whole game, the kind of stuff that Pizza, for instance, never managed to pull off. I don't think you're mafia. If you are, you own me and you deserve it.

glgl as they say. Remember Newyn for tomorrow, if you're here and I'm not.

[Montmorency]

I've already given all I have, several times. I don't spew.

GH on DP101, GH on Al Sips - transition to Khaan - Khaan is lead wagon, Pizza jumpstarts Choxorn wagon, Khaan joins him.

From then on Khaan and Pizza live in parallel worlds, while Pizza gives Newyn similar flipflop treatment as with atheotes, but over a more condensed discussion.

[Renata]

Like I said, you don't need to sell me about Khaan.

[Montmorency]

you have to sell me on you. Make your best case. You were back and forth a bit on Pizza and Khaan -- make me feel it.

So, what are you asking for? Passion?

[Renata]

So, what are you asking for? Passion?

Nothing, anymore.

[Montmorency]

If Khaan is not scum, then it must be Bart with you or Newyn.

[Renata]

If Khaan's not scum, it's game over. No pressure.

[Montmorency]

Then examine that universe (what's with the Newyn-style angst?) while we're sitting around here.

Barto scum, regardless of partner, has done something between lurking and power-wolfing.

Newyn scum, under simmering pressure throughout, has been fairly consistent in presentation. Said yesterday would be willing to lynch Bart as alternative to Pizza.

Pending...

[Renata]

Looking at other universes was what got me in trouble on day three. I've been saying Newyn/Khaan all along and I'm reluctant to second-guess myself again.

I did look at El Barto's day three catch-up while I was compiling votes. Feel free to take a look yourself, but it felt good tone-wise. El Barto's been on the right side of wagons when he's been on them and IIRC was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.

I don't think Newyn and El Barto are w/w -- that "howsabout BSmith or ElBarto tomorrow guys" with Pizza on the brink of lynch looked way too sincere an effort for me.

[Montmorency]

The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.

was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.

Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa"!)

[Renata]

The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.



Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa"!)

If you want to vote El Barto I will vote with you there, too. I might not like it, but I have no choice. El Barto will surely vote against you, and of the two of you, I'll take you.

I do have Newyn over Khaan in my own personal ScumoDex for a reason, but we're way into WIFOM here. There's no reason for you to be alive if Khaan is scum. There's no reason for me to be alive if Newyn is. Unless they thought that our deaths would lead automatically to votes on our top suspects and decided that making us second-guess ourselves was the better option. I don't know. I don't know why scum Khaan votes in Pizza's favor yesterday with no comment. Newyn's got himself set up to do so based on his vote at end of day three, so that's not a problem. El Barto was happily off wagon on day three -- his vote sucks, I'm banking everything on tone.

[Renata]

Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?

[Montmorency]

Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?

I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.

Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.

[Renata]

I don't think Newyn and Pizza ever directly address each other, the whole game. Even when Pizza does his scummy little monologue on Newyn's mafia talents, Newyn says nothing. Same might be true of GH/Khaan and Pizza,but I don't remember GH's contributions as well. I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once. Will find.

[Renata]

I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.

Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.

Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?

[Montmorency]

I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once.

Most of yesterday was them riffing off each other; before, that, a few posts of Pizza being dismissive toward Bart.

[Montmorency]

Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?

When you referred to a "catch-up post" while you were compiling votes.

[Renata]

Oh, not a post but posts. I'll get them, be right back.