"Explosion" in Manchester

[Pannonian]

HITLER!
No really, the whole thing with soldiers killing people behind the frontline and so on.

And then probably in the old testament, when God ordered the Israelites to wipe out their neighbors entirely and leave noone and nothing alive.
I would assume there are other examples I can't think of right now. Like the Spartans killing their own children for being weak or countless examples of warriors raiding villages, during which they probably killed a lot of innocent women and children etc.

It probably didn't hurt their honor a lot if it was for a good cause/benefitted their side. And this guy probably believed he was doing it for the good cause, too.

Raids with the purpose of killing women and children don't rate the term "civilisation". From agriculture onwards, having additional hands, especially non-threatening ones, helps whatever the equivalent is of the economy. Even nomadic cultures adopt captive children into their tribe. The only logical example might be a hunter gatherer tribe scratching out an existence in hard circumstances. Tell me, in which way does the UK resemble these?

If we go by your arguments and look for the most primitive cultures around that practice killing women and children, then the reciprocal answer would be to eliminate the threat to us in the same way. Not that you'd really condone that of course, except to snipe at us from a distance like you always do.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Raids with the purpose of killing women and children don't rate the term "civilisation". From agriculture onwards, having additional hands, especially non-threatening ones, helps whatever the equivalent is of the economy. Even nomadic cultures adopt captive children into their tribe. The only logical example might be a hunter gatherer tribe scratching out an existence in hard circumstances. Tell me, in which way does the UK resemble these?

If we go by your arguments and look for the most primitive cultures around that practice killing women and children, then the reciprocal answer would be to eliminate the threat to us in the same way. Not that you'd really condone that of course, except to snipe at us from a distance like you always do.

Primitive cultures do not wage total war. As you rightly point up, economic demands mitigate strongly against this.

Civilized cultures wage total war. In part, this is because the surfeit of resources allow it. In part, this is because war is not just for economic gain, but also for political intimidation and pride. Primitive cultures do not have the spare resources to kill in job lots to appear badass. For that you need kultur.

[Husar]

Raids with the purpose of killing women and children don't rate the term "civilisation". From agriculture onwards, having additional hands, especially non-threatening ones, helps whatever the equivalent is of the economy. Even nomadic cultures adopt captive children into their tribe. The only logical example might be a hunter gatherer tribe scratching out an existence in hard circumstances. Tell me, in which way does the UK resemble these?

If we go by your arguments and look for the most primitive cultures around that practice killing women and children, then the reciprocal answer would be to eliminate the threat to us in the same way. Not that you'd really condone that of course, except to snipe at us from a distance like you always do.

Moving goalposts, where is the civilization coming from after you just talked about traditional warrior ethos? I also wouldn't say your idea of warrior culture fits with "civilization", but at that point it just becomes a matter of opinion/definition.
Not sure why you mention agriculture, did the Nazis not have any or was there no civilization in Germany at the time?

[Pannonian]

Moving goalposts, where is the civilization coming from after you just talked about traditional warrior ethos? I also wouldn't say your idea of warrior culture fits with "civilization", but at that point it just becomes a matter of opinion/definition.
Not sure why you mention agriculture, did the Nazis not have any or was there no civilization in Germany at the time?

Since when have we used Nazi Germany as the touchstone of civilisation? Does anyone worthwhile hold that up as an exemplar of human civilisation?

[Fragony]

Since when have we used Nazi Germany as the touchstone of civilisation? Does anyone worthwhile hold that up as an exemplar of human civilisation?

The scary thing is that you actually could in a twisted way if you think of it. With some clever wording you can probably get away with calling nazi-Germany exemplar of human civilisation. If you just forget all the horrible things that were done just for argument's sake, why wouldn't it be

not an opinion, just a musing

[Pannonian]

The scary thing is that you actually could in a twisted way if you think of it. With some clever wording you can probably get away with calling nazi-Germany exemplar of human civilisation. If you just forget all the horrible things that were done just for argument's sake, why wouldn't it be

not an opinion, just a musing

If you are Husar or his ilk, Nazi Germany is the exemplar that proves that Britain and America are in the wrong and therefore deserve everything bad that can happen to them.

[Husar]

Since when have we used Nazi Germany as the touchstone of civilisation? Does anyone worthwhile hold that up as an exemplar of human civilisation?

I'm not the one saying the goal of our civilization should be to cleanse us of muslims.
And one doesn't have to be the touchstone of civilization in order to have it, you keep moving the goalposts.

If you are Husar or his ilk, Nazi Germany is the exemplar that proves that Britain and America are in the wrong and therefore deserve everything bad that can happen to them.

Exactly, if I were on cocaine, I'd intereprete my posts like that, too.

[Pannonian]

I say.

Bravery has traditionally been associated with the warrior ethos. At what time in history has it been considered reasonable for a warrior to target victims such as these?

Husar says I say.

I'm not the one saying the goal of our civilization should be to cleanse us of muslims.
And one doesn't have to be the touchstone of civilization in order to have it, you keep moving the goalposts.

[Fragony]

If you are Husar or his ilk, Nazi Germany is the exemplar that proves that Britain and America are in the wrong and therefore deserve everything bad that can happen to them.

Husar isn't like that. As for me, I see it as an example of how bad things can go very very fast. War was inevitable but I find the cleansings puzzling. I wish I could say I am not capable of doing something that horrble but am probably stupid thinking that. Thing is, a very advanced society like Germany (and many more) did something truly horrific. So scaringly calculating, it scares me because I don't understand, how can rational people do that, how can they explain it to themselves. Advanced societies? People just don't understand themselve no matter what where and when

[Pannonian]

Husar isn't like that. As for me, I see it as an example of how bad things can go very very fast. War was inevitable but I find the cleansings puzzling. I wish I could say I am not capable of doing something that horrble but am probably stupid thinking that. Thing is, a very advanced society like Germany (and many more) did something truly horrific. So scaringly calculating, it scares me because I don't understand it

And I deem Nazi Germany, and certainly those parts that participated in the Final Solution, to be murderers and barbarians. Whatever else they may have had, they crossed the line when they deliberately killed women and children. I'm not alone in thinking that either, as the Einsatzgruppen had high suicide rates and the higher ups had to dream up ways of further dehumanising the victims.

[Idaho]

The scary thing is that you actually could in a twisted way if you think of it. With some clever wording you can probably get away with calling nazi-Germany exemplar of human civilisation. If you just forget all the horrible things that were done just for argument's sake, why wouldn't it be

not an opinion, just a musing

The 'musings' of the people like Tommy Robinson become the musings of people like the Nazis. And they organised a final solution (in the words of Katie Hopkins) to all the problems of society.

75 odd years ago the letters from the half of my family still in Poland stopped.

[Greyblades]

The scary thing is that you actually could in a twisted way if you think of it. With some clever wording you can probably get away with calling nazi-Germany exemplar of human civilisation. If you just forget all the horrible things that were done just for argument's sake, why wouldn't it be

not an opinion, just a musing

Hell, if you revert to the morality of the pre enlightenment you could easily call nazi germany an exemplar of human civilization without any fancy wordplay or having a selective memory at all!

Would certainly explain why Mein Kampf is a best seller in the middle east.

[Fragony]

Hell, if you revert to the morality of the pre enlightenment you could easily call nazi germany an exemplar of human civilization without any fancy wordplay or having a selective memory at all!

Would certainly explain why Mein Kampf is a best seller in the middle east.

I am saying that an exemplar civilisation can go completily wrong, no matter what

[Fragony]

Hell, if you revert to the morality of the pre enlightenment you could easily call nazi germany an exemplar of human civilization without any fancy wordplay or having a selective memory at all!

Would certainly explain why Mein Kampf is a best seller in the middle east.

My morals are my own and I think I am a really nice person, even if I did some bad things myself but that was my job. The job was protecting the girls, and I am no idiot I knew fully well that it's shady. I beat people up, even used a knive a few times, even pretty badly open faces and all that. I also worked for something I really dispise, as a muscle for hire I still did it and ignored what I knew was wrong. I even participated sometimes in orgies. Yet I always knew something was of, even if it all looked good. I knew it sometimes wasn't, fully. You get into a sort of denial on what is happening right in front of you, you hurt people and it makes total sense to do that at the moment. Because I know my own flaws I give others some slack. Even if you are a really nice person you can become horrible. I don't feel sorry for the beatings or the stabbings, morality is strange, at the time it felt right. Right now I feel that I was always wrong getting in that business. I wouldn't lie saying that it destroyed a part of me

Civilisation, think again. It doesn't matter how civilised a cisilision is, cruelty will exist,as will indifferdnce to it

[AE Bravo]

Would certainly explain why Mein Kampf is a best seller in the middle east.

Of course there's no way that is because of academic purposes like European countries...

On a side note, I don't think much of Trump calling bombers "losers." Playground insults won't hurt their feelings.

[Fragony]

Of course there's no way that is because of academic purposes like European countries...

There must be many academies than, a quik calculation comes down to at least more than a thousand versions of Mein Kampf per student. I own a copy as well, second print pretty valauble. But educational purpuso, about what, there is nothing to learn from it it's gibberish. Maybe it's so popular because Hitler hated jews and blamed them for, well just about everything. Should sound familiar Tried reading it but my German isn't so good.