Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm not lynching in Champ or novice today.

[Logic]

I'm not lynching in Champ or novice today.

So, by process of elimination, that means your top 3 suspects include myself, and my top 2 suspects.

[GeneralHankerchief]

So, by process of elimination, that means your top 3 suspects include myself, and my top 2 suspects.

Yeah. It's not where I want to be, but it's kinda a weight off your shoulders when you have a 66% chance of guessing right as opposed to a 40% one.

(not that I plan to guess but you know what I mean)

[GeneralHankerchief]

So, by process of elimination, that means your top 3 suspects include myself, and my top 2 suspects.

Here's another thing I don't like though Logic, when I made that statement you just took it for what it was. You didn't further question me on it, you didn't try to feel out where I was coming from on it, you didn't really try anything like that. Instead you just leaped directly for the "okay so this guy has a 1/3 chance of lynching me before other factors", almost like you already knew I was town and instead went straight for calculating your optimal lynch choice to get me to vote with you.

[Jabbz]

Logic
GeneralHankerchief
Champ
Jabbz
Manasi
Novice

Logic I'm leaning fairly town on. While we aren't seeing the same thing in our pm, or he is more cautious about that interpretation, he has been consistent since the issue came up, which I read as town.

GHC I don't like his play this game, but I don't read it scum as much as I did on day 2(?).

Champ I dont feel protective of at all. I think that even if he is town he has managed to do less than I have which is pretty shitty.

Manasi Hasn't done a whole hell of a lot either, but the play she has been exhibiting is similar to what I saw in her last game, where I think her role would be closer to town than to scum, despite it being a factional game.

I'm with GHC on Novice, I feel this is his standard town play to date, and he hasn't done anything egregious from my perspective.

What that comes down to however, is the two people i'm least happy with being two people that contributed virtually nothing all game. I don't buy that scum has been this successful by just phoning it in.

I'm going to throw my final vote on GHC. Largely I think this is due to the fact that I think his play has been subpar this game, but I know him to be an excellent town player. He has vote for :Seireikhaan, Raith Kemmler, Jabbz, SeveringViper, Csargo, and El Barto. Each time he pushed a vote it was a safe vote, never really bucking the system, which has allowed him to largely fly under the radar in terms of accountability. I think he has managed to play a great scum game, but hopefully we can put an end to it now.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm going to throw my final vote on GHC. Largely I think this is due to the fact that I think his play has been subpar this game, but I know him to be an excellent town player. He has vote for :Seireikhaan, Raith Kemmler, Jabbz, SeveringViper, Csargo, and El Barto. Each time he pushed a vote it was a safe vote, never really bucking the system, which has allowed him to largely fly under the radar in terms of accountability. I think he has managed to play a great scum game, but hopefully we can put an end to it now.

Is this a slip?

[GeneralHankerchief]

There's a few issues with Jabbz's big post just now, but as far as I'm concerned only one matters. He said he was casting his *final* vote against me.

If Jabbz was actually town and legitimately believed I was scum he wouldn't be using the term "final" because a correct lynch would extejd the game to another round. If he's mafia, though, it would indeed be a final vote - because the game would end with my lynch.

I'm pretty sure here that Jabbz lost perspective for a moment, and I'm basically treating him as outed scum now. He has to be the lynch for today.

Vote: Jabbz

[GeneralHankerchief]

Extejd = extended

[Jabbz]

That is your take away from my post? That I made a mistake that only a rookie would make? I expect it to be my final vote because I think we aren't going to win. I suppose its possible that we will make it through the day, and honestly if that's the case there is a decent chance I'll make it through the night, as I'm still a pretty easy sell for a mislynch. Realistically however, I'm either going to be lynched today, or we are going to lose. We have a 1 in 3 chance of getting scum right now. Everyone seems to have their votes spread out, yet two of you can work together to ensure the vote at the end of the day lands on a townie. That makes it poor odds in our favor.

But lets look past that for a moment. My biggest issue with your play this game has been your cherry picking in dealing with others arguments, especially mine. Rather than deal with the substance of my argument, you have yet again looked only to one little thing and said "LOOK THERE! He made this one little mistake, don't look at anything else, just this one thing." Despite that however, despite your early surety of my guilt, you kept putting your vote elsewhere. You kept me alive to push on me later. You never made a serious attempt to get me dead, but happily jumped on the wagons of townies instead. Why is that? As I said before, I'm an easy lynch late game, so you kept me around just for that cause.

[Manasi]

Hi.

Been at a site visit all day and just now woke up from a nap after that.

Jabbz/Manasi is my top pick for the scum team.

And if it looks like I am keeping my options open, it's because I'm unsure. I've changed my opinion on most of my reads, and I've been wrong EOD three times, only been on a known wolf once, and my last two haven't flipped yet.

Read novice's posts but want to discuss this one a little bit.

My lynch list is Logic/Jabbz. This post could easily be leaving one mislynch on the table (myself) and then adding his partner (Jabbz) in to make sure that IF ALL ELSE FAILS, he put a mafia in the list of people he wants to lynch. I think that's kinda red flag-ish, but I think that definitely stands out to me moreso than other people just because it seems like he's trying to sort of cover himself and save face while still giving town at least part of the truth (in that Jabbz is scum).



As for Novice, I am also very confused as to who/what healed me and why they did. I haven't paid insanely close attention to flips. Has anyone dead flipped with any healing powers or items? If not, then the person who healed me is still alive and should maybe say something.

[novice]

Manasi, what is your role?

[novice]

In answer to your question, Manasi:

Narration (post 3)
Start of Day One (post 4)
End of Day One (post 438)
Seireikhaan fainted (post 439) Bulbasaur, 3p survivor
End of Night One (post 442)
Cuthillius fainted (post 443) Oddish, Town 1x poison
End of Day Two (post 728)
Raith Kemmler fainted (post 729) Ekans, Town 1x block
End of Night Two (post 732)
Sooh fainted (post 732) Diglett, Town 1x block
Zack replaced in for choxorn. (post 733)
End of Day Three (post 1051)
Autolycus fainted (post 1052) Pidgey, Town Nonconsecutive Self-protect + 1x block, ground immune
End of Night Three (post 1057)
BSmith fainted (post 1058) Meowth, Town
End of Day Four (post 1291)
SeveringViper fainted (post 1292) Squirtle, Town Nonconsecutive Self-protect + 1x block
End of Night Four (post 1293)
No one fainted (post 1294)
End of Day Five (post 1536) Heracross, Mafia goon with self-protect ability
End of Night Five (post 1538) Paras, Town 2x Sleep, 1x Block
End of Day Six (post 1669)
El barto fainted (post 1670) Kakuna, Town 1x poison, poison immune
End of Night Six (post 1671)
Montmorency fainted (post 1672) Voltorb, Town 1x Block, 1x Weak electricity vig shot

[novice]

That is your take away from my post? That I made a mistake that only a rookie would make? I expect it to be my final vote because I think we aren't going to win. I suppose its possible that we will make it through the day, and honestly if that's the case there is a decent chance I'll make it through the night, as I'm still a pretty easy sell for a mislynch. Realistically however, I'm either going to be lynched today, or we are going to lose. We have a 1 in 3 chance of getting scum right now. Everyone seems to have their votes spread out, yet two of you can work together to ensure the vote at the end of the day lands on a townie. That makes it poor odds in our favor.

But lets look past that for a moment. My biggest issue with your play this game has been your cherry picking in dealing with others arguments, especially mine. Rather than deal with the substance of my argument, you have yet again looked only to one little thing and said "LOOK THERE! He made this one little mistake, don't look at anything else, just this one thing." Despite that however, despite your early surety of my guilt, you kept putting your vote elsewhere. You kept me alive to push on me later. You never made a serious attempt to get me dead, but happily jumped on the wagons of townies instead. Why is that? As I said before, I'm an easy lynch late game, so you kept me around just for that cause.

Is this another slip?

Kind of agree with the second paragraph though.

[Jabbz]

I was laying out the possibilities as I saw them. I get lynched, we lynch another townie and lose, or by some dumb luck we get scum. That's the 1/3 I was talking about.

[GeneralHankerchief]

But lets look past that for a moment. My biggest issue with your play this game has been your cherry picking in dealing with others arguments, especially mine. Rather than deal with the substance of my argument, you have yet again looked only to one little thing and said "LOOK THERE! He made this one little mistake, don't look at anything else, just this one thing." Despite that however, despite your early surety of my guilt, you kept putting your vote elsewhere. You kept me alive to push on me later. You never made a serious attempt to get me dead, but happily jumped on the wagons of townies instead. Why is that? As I said before, I'm an easy lynch late game, so you kept me around just for that cause.

The reason I keep pointing these mistakes by you out is because you keep making them. Little comments, here and there. Wording that's off. Phrasing that's, in my experience, far more likely to come from mafia. On their own they're pretty bad, but keep adding them up together? That's even worse.

But you want to get on me for nitpicking? Fine, let's look at your argument holistically.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logic
GeneralHankerchief
Champ
Jabbz
Manasi
Novice

Logic I'm leaning fairly town on. While we aren't seeing the same thing in our pm, or he is more cautious about that interpretation, he has been consistent since the issue came up, which I read as town.

GHC I don't like his play this game, but I don't read it scum as much as I did on day 2(?).

Champ I dont feel protective of at all. I think that even if he is town he has managed to do less than I have which is pretty shitty.

Manasi Hasn't done a whole hell of a lot either, but the play she has been exhibiting is similar to what I saw in her last game, where I think her role would be closer to town than to scum, despite it being a factional game.

I'm with GHC on Novice, I feel this is his standard town play to date, and he hasn't done anything egregious from my perspective.

What that comes down to however, is the two people i'm least happy with being two people that contributed virtually nothing all game. I don't buy that scum has been this successful by just phoning it in.

I'm going to throw my final vote on GHC. Largely I think this is due to the fact that I think his play has been subpar this game, but I know him to be an excellent town player. He has vote for :Seireikhaan, Raith Kemmler, Jabbz, SeveringViper, Csargo, and El Barto. Each time he pushed a vote it was a safe vote, never really bucking the system, which has allowed him to largely fly under the radar in terms of accountability. I think he has managed to play a great scum game, but hopefully we can put an end to it now.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

In total this post gives five reads, three of which (Logic, Manasi, novice) are town. He scumreads me, sort of and weakly, and tosses shade at Champ but the actual read is ambiguous. So is the team exactly me and Champ? Does that make sense from our interactions over the course of the game?

You've been reasonably consistent on reading both Champ and myself scum for the better part of the game (at the very least the second half), but have you ever truly gone for us? Let's roll the tape:

So I've gone back and reread Monty. I'm not a fan of his inconsistencies, or his zeroing in on GHC when he is not here to defend himself. In addition to that I mislike the idea of lynching GHC when he has justifiable reasons for not engaging in substantial self defense. As I stated earlier, I'm down to rake him across the coals tomorrow, but doing so today seems to be less than ideal both because we increase our chance of lynching town, but also because we get less valid information to work with whether he pops town or scum.

Given the tie, and the fact that I know I am town: Vote: Montmorency.

Okay so he clearly sides with me against Monty here (before the wagons move).

Because your "reason" for voting logic is bad. I'd say it's poorly explained, but I don't even think it qualifies as that. You dislike a vote he places so that "locks wolf." No one else is going after votes in a manner quite so haphazardly.

Shading Champ, not enough to shift him off Barto (his current vote).

All reads subject to change after iso reads in the upcoming day, but this is where I view things currently.

Lock Town
Logic

Likely Town
Manasi

Unsure in no particular order
Novice
Csargo
Zack choxorn

Possible Scum
Champ
Montmorency

Scum, El Barto more sure than GHC
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto

Okay so Barto's a higher priority than me here.

If that wasn't you're intent then we're all good. I stand by my argument, there is a difference in the amount of time necessary to follow compared to posting. As to being careful with my posts, ensuring I use factual information with my arguments is kind of important when you're town. That you see being measured and careful as a bad thing strikes me as odd. Either way, I'm fairly convinced you're scum, so I'm not likely to change your mind anyway :P

He's "fairly convinced" I'm scum here, yet...

Well I'm not sure I'm going to be around at EOD, so I'll throw my vote out now. It doesn't really seem to matter given that there is little chance CSargo isn't swinging. I still think Barto and GHC are the likely scum, and I'll stand by that. Vote: El Barto

In before someone says I'm trying to save CSargo. He's ahead by 5 votes, nothing I do could change that with 2h left.

I'm still not his top vote.

I find myself in a weird position here. I really dislike the play El Barto has been conducting throughout this game. At the same time however I've spent the last 3 games trying to identify the vibe I'm getting from Monty, and I think I finally pinned it down. He reminds me of a slick used car salesman this game. Always trying to sell, using whatever works. I don't know if that makes me think he is scum, but it makes me think he isn't town, so perhaps a 3rd party, perhaps a 3rd party with a lynch goal.

I agree that barto is a good lynch. If he is town, I'm wrong, you will lynch me, and town will lose, but I'm fairly certain I'm not wrong. You can lynch me, and I'm not certain thats a bad thing. I'm town, but I'm an easy lylo lynch at this point, though I think not the only one. I think its likely we have two more scum, and all they have to do is get one other vote on me and it's likely over. Killing me now would provide some information I think, though not as much as I would hope because my play has not been stellar, but it still might provide the nudge needed to properly evaluate others. That being said, I still don't want to be lynched, as I know I'm town and that reduces our odds of winning.

As such I'm still down for barto.

Novice I'm feeling more townie. He's doing a lot of meta, but IIRC that tends to be his norm. I don't get the noviscum feel from him this game though.

GHC I don't know that I feel is scum anymore. An honest evaluation of my play shows I'm not doing all that hot, but he is still ignoring arguments I make, and cherry picking to defend his case which screams scum to me. I'm not able to articulate why I'm less bothered by his play than by Barto's, but I am.

Manasi I just don't know how to feel about. Her engagement is similar to what it was in the only other game I played with her, but there it was a faction game (the french one) so it doesn't provide a great standard to judge by. I don't get any direct scum vibes though, and some towny so yeah.

Logic. I dunno. I feel like logic should have gotten my reference at the beginning of this day. The fact that he didn't, when he laid out a partial case for it earlier in the game implies that he is either hiding the information, or somehow magically missed something he brought up days ago. Perhaps he gained an ability, or changed faction, I dunno. It is weird though.


All things considered: Vote: El Barto. Please remember that one of the votes on him is his own, and thus subject to last minute changing, so weigh the total vote carefully when you cast your own. Not sure if I'll be here in 40, but good luck to us.

New day, same as before.

~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile, this is your attack on me from just a little while ago:

Despite that however, despite your early surety of my guilt, you kept putting your vote elsewhere. You kept me alive to push on me later. You never made a serious attempt to get me dead, but happily jumped on the wagons of townies instead. Why is that? As I said before, I'm an easy lynch late game, so you kept me around just for that cause.

You're doing the exact same thing with me, and you know this, and you attack me for it.

Our defenses are probably going to be similar, so let's just get them out of the way now:

I always did scumread you, but due to lack of time to make a serious push on my end plus thread sentiment not particularly conducive to it, I've gone after other targets I've also believed to be likely scum. The specifics of these targets can vary: Barto for you, whichever of the two wagons I believed was scummier for me, but the main point of the defense is the same.

Here's the main two points of differentiation:

First, the outright lies.

He has vote for :Seireikhaan, Raith Kemmler, Jabbz, SeveringViper, Csargo, and El Barto. Each time he pushed a vote it was a safe vote, never really bucking the system, which has allowed him to largely fly under the radar in terms of accountability. I think he has managed to play a great scum game, but hopefully we can put an end to it now.

Right, a safe vote. D1 was a safe vote, when I was the most outspoken voice against khaan - who, for the fiftieth time, did not flip town - and took a large amount of heat for it. D2 was a safe vote, when I caught up with the thread with two minutes to go and made a gut call and voted one townie dead over another townie and took an incredible amount of heat for it. D3 was a safe vote, when I didn't have enough information to make a call and pointedly stayed on you, an unknown flip, over two townies. D4 was a safe vote, when I openly called for a CFD on you and only moved to Viper (a townie) at the last second because I thought he was more likely to flip scum than Barto (another townie). D5 was a safe vote, when I saw what Zack was doing and provided cover for him in case he didn't want to hardclaim. D6 was a safe vote when I came back, saw that you weren't happening, and moved to save my biggest townread at the time. Yeah, all of those were safe votes alright.

But the second point of differentiation is the hypocrisy.

According to the world that you want everyone to believe, I've lazily kept you around, playing with my food before I eat it, before I moved in for the final kill at MYLO now. Except I've pretty conclusively proven that you've pretty much done the same with me, and yet you're scumreading me for it, as if you know it's what you've done and therefore it's a scummy action and is therefore more likely to be taken as such by the town.

Here's what I'm betting happened: You took the thread's temperature, saw that my play had been lackluster and not up to my usual standards (something I freely admit, at least up until now), and as long as I kept being off target and the wagons kept being town/town I was an easy patsy to keep around until you brought the hammer down on me this phase.

Your case on me is completely baseless and you've been acting scummy all game, both from the content of your individual posts - which I've focused on numerous times - and your overall strategy/cases. So, since we've been unconsciously linked this entire game, let me close this out with one last paraphrase:

I think you've managed to play a great scum game, but hopefully we can put an end to it now.

[novice]

Manasi has to be scum though, right? Noone has refuted that AFAICT.

[novice]

THANK YOU FOR THE HEAL @ WHOEVER

HI ZACK

Did the GM tell you that you had been healed, or just that you were no longer poisoned, or what happened, exactly?

[novice]

Tally as of post 1727:

Lynch votes
2 votes: Jabbz (Logic, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Manasi (novice)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Jabbz)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logic

Manasi

Jabbz

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

[Logic]

This is LYLO with less than 12 hours to go; there is not enough talking for my comfort. We've not heard from Champ, and Manasi has not added enough to the discussion to be considered noteworthy, nor has she placed a vote.

[Logic]

If Jabbz is indeed one of our two mafia, which I think is all but certain, that makes GH all but certain town.

So, for Jabbz partner, my biggest suspect is Manasi. I think he has been doing some distancing from her most of the game, but I am not confident of that and will have to reread.

[novice]

If Jabbz is indeed one of our two mafia, which I think is all but certain, that makes GH all but certain town.

So, for Jabbz partner, my biggest suspect is Manasi. I think he has been doing some distancing from her most of the game, but I am not confident of that and will have to reread.

It seems unlikely that GH and Jabbz are partners, agreed. I haven't decided which of them I "side with" though.
Are you planning on joining me on Manasi?

[Champ]

i wont be here for the end of day
Jabbz

[Manasi]

Manasi has to be scum though, right? Noone has refuted that AFAICT.

no lol it's logic/jabbz

Did the GM tell you that you had been healed, or just that you were no longer poisoned, or what happened, exactly?

said i was no longer poisoned etc

[Askthepizzaguy]

i wont be here for the end of day
Jabbz

This vote isn't formatted correctly but I saw it and will count it.

[novice]

Tally as of post 1734:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Jabbz (Logic, GeneralHankerchief, Champ)
1 votes: Manasi (novice)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Jabbz)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logic

Manasi

Jabbz

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

[Champ]

oh yea i forgot thats how yo udo it

[novice]

Here's what my gut tells me about GH's big post 1725 where he votes Jabbz:

• He seems more interested in lynching Jabbz than in finding the truth
• Make a case that's big enough to justify voting Jabbz and staying there
• Trump up the charges
• Meanwhile, don't comment on Manasi

[novice]

There's a few issues with Jabbz's big post just now, but as far as I'm concerned only one matters. He said he was casting his *final* vote against me.

If Jabbz was actually town and legitimately believed I was scum he wouldn't be using the term "final" because a correct lynch would extejd the game to another round. If he's mafia, though, it would indeed be a final vote - because the game would end with my lynch.

I'm pretty sure here that Jabbz lost perspective for a moment, and I'm basically treating him as outed scum now. He has to be the lynch for today.

Vote: Jabbz

This is the first trumped-up charge IMO and where he prematurely locks on to Jabbz.

[Logic]

It seems unlikely that GH and Jabbz are partners, agreed. I haven't decided which of them I "side with" though.
Are you planning on joining me on Manasi?

I am willing to switch to Manasi with a better case* see below, but I think Jabbz is more likely scum than Manasi. Jabbz can be partners with just about anyone, but I don't think the same can be said of Manasi.

Here's what my gut tells me about GH's big post 1725 where he votes Jabbz:

• He seems more interested in lynching Jabbz than in finding the truth
• Make a case that's big enough to justify voting Jabbz and staying there
• Trump up the charges
• Meanwhile, don't comment on Manasi

This is the first trumped-up charge IMO and where he prematurely locks on to Jabbz.

There's a few issues with Jabbz's big post just now, but as far as I'm concerned only one matters. He said he was casting his *final* vote against me.

If Jabbz was actually town and legitimately believed I was scum he wouldn't be using the term "final" because a correct lynch would extejd the game to another round. If he's mafia, though, it would indeed be a final vote - because the game would end with my lynch.

I'm pretty sure here that Jabbz lost perspective for a moment, and I'm basically treating him as outed scum now. He has to be the lynch for today.

Vote: Jabbz

So, novice: why are you voting for Manasi if you think GH is making trumped up charges against Jabbz? The likelihood of them both being town is rather slim, but instead it's very likely that one of them is a wolf. Yet instead, you are voting off on Manasi? Is this a slip?

I'm sticking with Jabbz. I think he is the best case today, and novice is back in scum-tention to me. More so than Manasi.

*As I was typing, I read the last statement by Novice

[novice]

Because I'm waiting to see if either Jabbz or GH has anything to say about Manasi or shows any interest in voting her.