SIM-card registration

[Gilrandir]

Then explain to me how you would use a TV set or a mixer for criminal activities or terrorism?

Beside the obvious usage of the devices to kill someone (like dropping a TV set on somebody's head from a top floor or immersing a plugged in mixer into a bath where someone is lying) one can offer a more sophisticated ways to use a TV set for criminal activity and/or terrorism. In fact, it is the way Russia uses television spawning hate shows or airing fake news which eventually made numerous Russians go to Donbas and join "the oppressed Russian speakers revolting against Nazi junta in Kyiv". Radio can be used to this end too. Have you ever heard of Radio Thousand hills?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_...Mille_Collines

And before you say anything, note that your first sentence is already completely out of context since it's not the mobile phone that you register, but the SIM card. The SIM card can be removed from the mobile phone and used with a different one. The mobile phone can also be used without the SIM card.

I agree that it is the SIM card that is registered, I just used phone as a metonymy (part for whole type). But while the phone can be used without a SIM card (not for communication though), the card is useless without the phone (well, you can butter your scones with it or use as a book marker, but it is not its real use, is it?). So one may say you kind of register your phone too when you register the SIM card.

What you do by connecting a name with a SIM card is connect a name with the communication that it is used for. The communication is the object of interest and now I wait for you to explain how you communicate with a toaster.

First of all, some people marry a TV set (http://www.pravdareport.com/news/soc...-2002/25696-0/), so why can't others communicate with a toaster? They sing for hair dryers and say that they sing INTO them - liers!

Second of all (the bolded statement), I don't see why my life (and communication as a part of it) should be a matter of unauthorized and unsolicited interest to anyone. I believe this is called privacy.

edit to add: Landlines are already registered by the way, that's why criminals used to call from phone booths and then switched to unregistered SIM cards. SIM card registration would just bring mobile communication to the same level of registration that stationary lines already have.

Believe me, if some criminal wants to keep his communication secret, he will find a way to do this even if all mobile phones... oops SIM cards are registered. The first way is internet, the second is the one used in Russia - fakely registered SIM cards sold illegaly.

[Husar]

Beside the obvious usage of the devices to kill someone (like dropping a TV set on somebody's head from a top floor or immersing a plugged in mixer into a bath where someone is lying) one can offer a more sophisticated ways to use a TV set for criminal activity and/or terrorism. In fact, it is the way Russia uses television spawning hate shows or airing fake news which eventually made numerous Russians go to Donbas and join "the oppressed Russian speakers revolting against Nazi junta in Kyiv". Radio can be used to this end too. Have you ever heard of Radio Thousand hills?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_...Mille_Collines

Exactly, the government should register all TV to stop itself from spreading terrorism in other countries.
This really convinces me that SIM card registration is a bad thing.

I know I asked, but I thought we would stay in context.

Second of all (the bolded statement), I don't see why my life (and communication as a part of it) should be a matter of unauthorized and unsolicited interest to anyone. I believe this is called privacy.

That would be a nice statement if we knew for sure that you didn't plan to blow us other people up, unauthorized even.
It's not private when you kill others. And I already mentioned that carriers are (in decent countries) required to store the data securely so it stays private until a judge sees enough evidence of wrongdoing to authorize access to it.

Believe me, if some criminal wants to keep his communication secret, he will find a way to do this even if all mobile phones... oops SIM cards are registered. The first way is internet, the second is the one used in Russia - fakely registered SIM cards sold illegaly.

Believe me, if you have nothing to hide, your privacy can be violated all day and you have nothing to fear.

"the internet" is funny, because that's exactly why you want SIM cards to be registered, because they're interfaces to the internet. If it's easy to register them using fake names then your security methods are insufficient or you're likely dealing with very sophisticated criminals with access to fake IDs. You could use the same reasoning not to put up signs for speed restrictions because a simple step on the gas pedal can make anyone go faster anyway. SIM card registration makes life harder for amyn criminals and hardly affects the average person unless they live in a dictatorship anyway. But in the latter case they don't get a choice in the matter and it's pointless to discuss.

Cars are also registered to an owner here via the number plate. It doesn't stop sophisticated criminals from changing the number plates, but it's still useful in a whole lot of situations.

[Gilrandir]

Exactly, the government should register all TV to stop itself from spreading terrorism in other countries.
This really convinces me that SIM card registration is a bad thing.

Then go all the way and get mixers, toasters and vibrators registered. Things can really be put to dangerous uses. The more of them are registered the safer your life will be.

That would be a nice statement if we knew for sure that you didn't plan to blow us other people up, unauthorized even.
It's not private when you kill others. And I already mentioned that carriers are (in decent countries) required to store the data securely so it stays private until a judge sees enough evidence of wrongdoing to authorize access to it.

Until I haven't killed others or planned to do so (and haven't been involved into any other criminal activities) I would like my life to stay private.

Believe me, if you have nothing to hide, your privacy can be violated all day and you have nothing to fear.

Oh really? So far I haven't committed any crimes (= have nothing to hide), yet I don't like people poking their noses into my life even if it won't result in me feeling fear. Other feelings (exasperation, indignation, insecurity) are not pleasant to experience either.

"the internet" is funny, because that's exactly why you want SIM cards to be registered, because they're interfaces to the internet.

There are other ways of internet access besides SIM cards. By the way, Estonia provides free Wi-fi all over the country (= no internet access registration) yet I can't remember any terroristic attacks there and crime isn't that rampant.

Exactly, the government should register all TV to stop itself from spreading terrorism in other countries.
This really convinces me that SIM card registration is a bad thing.

If it's easy to register them using fake names then your security methods are insufficient or you're likely dealing with very sophisticated criminals with access to fake IDs. You could use the same reasoning not to put up signs for speed restrictions because a simple step on the gas pedal can make anyone go faster anyway. SIM card registration makes life harder for amyn criminals and hardly affects the average person unless they live in a dictatorship anyway. But in the latter case they don't get a choice in the matter and it's pointless to discuss.

Cars are also registered to an owner here via the number plate. It doesn't stop sophisticated criminals from changing the number plates, but it's still useful in a whole lot of situations.

Ok. You convinced me. Having everything registered as it is in Germany, the UK or in Russia makes society much safer than in Romania or Ukraine... wait a bit! weren't there any terroristic attacks resulting in numerous casualties in Ukraine which is at war or in Romania? Hardly. Weren't there any in Germany and the UK recently or in Russia in 2000? Register 'em all, way to go.

[Beskar]

Admittedly, for my phone SIM, I am on a pay monthly contract as it is significantly cheaper and more affordable. We also have to provide proof (Passport, etc) of who we are at banks too if want to open an account or make significant changes, or withdraw money and we fail their security checks to just hand it over.

[Husar]

Then go all the way and get mixers, toasters and vibrators registered. Things can really be put to dangerous uses. The more of them are registered the safer your life will be.

Until I haven't killed others or planned to do so (and haven't been involved into any other criminal activities) I would like my life to stay private.

Oh really? So far I haven't committed any crimes (= have nothing to hide), yet I don't like people poking their noses into my life even if it won't result in me feeling fear. Other feelings (exasperation, indignation, insecurity) are not pleasant to experience either.

There are other ways of internet access besides SIM cards. By the way, Estonia provides free Wi-fi all over the country (= no internet access registration) yet I can't remember any terroristic attacks there and crime isn't that rampant.

Ok. You convinced me. Having everything registered as it is in Germany, the UK or in Russia makes society much safer than in Romania or Ukraine... wait a bit! weren't there any terroristic attacks resulting in numerous casualties in Ukraine which is at war or in Romania? Hardly. Weren't there any in Germany and the UK recently or in Russia in 2000? Register 'em all, way to go.

Now we're deep in Gilrandir-type discussion territory and I'll just say that what you say is partially pointless, some of it I have already answered and the rest mostly misses the point. I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion for five or twenty pages though, so have a nice day.

[edyzmedieval]

The laws of SIM-card registry are being proposed, but they never made it into law. They're trying though. Every year.

[Gilrandir]

Admittedly, for my phone SIM, I am on a pay monthly contract as it is significantly cheaper and more affordable. We also have to provide proof (Passport, etc) of who we are at banks too if want to open an account or make significant changes, or withdraw money and we fail their security checks to just hand it over.

This is a different case. In banks you ASK FOR MONEY from them, so they have a right to know who you are. In case of SIM cards you PAY MONEY to buy it, so no one is supposed to display such an interest.

Now we're deep in Gilrandir-type discussion territory and I'll just say that what you say is partially pointless, some of it I have already answered and the rest mostly misses the point. I'm not really interested in continuing the discussion for five or twenty pages though, so have a nice day.

If you are so pro-registering, I wonder why you don't give your real name registering at the Org. Generally I may note that your evaluation of the discussion is arbitrary, so have a nice day too.

The laws of SIM-card registry are being proposed, but they never made it into law. They're trying though. Every year.

Let's hope they will never pass it. Both in Romania and in Ukraine.

[Husar]

If you are so pro-registering, I wonder why you don't give your real name registering at the Org.

Just so you can stop wondering: Because if your analogy worked, you could then only read the Org after getting permission from a judge after proving to him that I'm likely dangerous, and being a member of the police force of course...