Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Zack]

Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Zack and Dp are still town.

I'm not particularly interested in lynching Pizza today even though I don't really have a read on him.

I think Kage is displaying some pretty decent towntells so far (willingness to get into it with people early on and picking his spots as they come) but I'm not giving him a pass for the full game yet.

Of the two Dp pushers I talked about earlier, I like Reinoe more than Cuth because Reinoe's explanations are decent and more well thought out than Cuth's.

I'm a little bit wary of Slaan right now because he's acting a bit different than in other games I've played with him in/read of his, but I think it can be chalked up to adjusting to a new environment for now.

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

Vote: Cuth

can you go into a little more detail on kage, slaan, and fred?

is kage less confrontational as scum? How is slaan different? How does this compare to your usual experience playing with fred?

[Zack]

Ok I put Zack townish for now just for wall posting right after I wallposted!

Wallposting is not aligntment-indicative in itself

[GeneralHankerchief]

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

Yeah, there for sure is. It's tough to explain why, kind of just adapting to the environment. I wouldn't say I have a strict meta definition, simply because my meta has roughly the foundation of runny gravy at this point, but I definitely do. Does this change things for you at all w/r/t your read on me?

[Slaan]

Wallposting is not aligntment-indicative in itself

Very true, just thought it funny how there are tons of small posts over those 16 sites and then suddently bam, two wallposts in a row.

I also read your post just now and I agree with most of what you said so yea, I update your fun upgrade to town to a real townish read :)

[Zack]

Yeah, there for sure is. It's tough to explain why, kind of just adapting to the environment. I wouldn't say I have a strict meta definition, simply because my meta has roughly the foundation of runny gravy at this point, but I definitely do. Does this change things for you at all w/r/t your read on me?

Not really.

[Zack]

I mean, I believe you gh

but I don't think you'd like about that regardless of your alignment

I guess it's just more about setting my expectations in this game for you. I got burned pretty hard in Pokemon, and outside of that I seem to always find something vaguely wolfy about you (e.g. the alias turbo where we called each other wolves until figuring it out at the very, very end).

I want to get better at reading you.

[GeneralHankerchief]

can you go into a little more detail on kage, slaan, and fred?

is kage less confrontational as scum? How is slaan different? How does this compare to your usual experience playing with fred?

I'm most confident with my read on Kage, probably due to the whole "we've been playing together for 11 years thing". Kage as scum, while he can certainly get down in the trenches when he needs to, tends to default more to the "consensus builder" type where he skates by, is friendly with everyone, and then cuts your throat at night. Town Kage says what's on his mind and I think there's a marked less concern for his own survival. I actually think he's lynched more as town than as mafia.

Slaan and Fred are on a notable tier down, though it's worth noting I haven't seen either of their scum games to this point (Fred might have been mafia once in a turbo but that doesn't count). I'm more comfortable reading Slaan simply from experience (observing his champs game, and being in there with him in Anni and being mafia to his town in Nego's Wild West game). It's hard to explain, just he's not hitting the tone tells he did in the other games yet. Give it time and I think I'll be able to nail him one way or the other.

Fred I'm least confident about but I think he's definitely had less engagement so far than he's capable of (yesyes, I know the same can be said for me, but I'm town so).

[Kagemusha]

Isolating ppl, only looking it their posts in thread... GH made a 'how to' do it here in this thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...g-from-offsite

Bad GH! Tracking tools for mafia games. Whats next?Language analyzer with database from previous games with percentages of different words used in different roles... I better shut up, before Monty creates one.

[Slaan]

Slaan and Fred are on a notable tier down, though it's worth noting I haven't seen either of their scum games to this point (Fred might have been mafia once in a turbo but that doesn't count). I'm more comfortable reading Slaan simply from experience (observing his champs game, and being in there with him in Anni and being mafia to his town in Nego's Wild West game). It's hard to explain, just he's not hitting the tone tells he did in the other games yet. Give it time and I think I'll be able to nail him one way or the other..

Everyone note it down: If GH mislynches me kill GH :)

[Logic]

Do not worry. I run a company for a living, not a graphic designer per se. Hopefully you turn out to be at least as good mafia player as i am a forum skin maker. Welcome to the Org.

Cant get any scummyness out of you but i have to wonder how come Logic does not want to talk about why he thinks you are not scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

Please see the above quoted post.

Btw what is this ISO people keep rambling about? You people have dwelved so deep in this stuff that i need a mafia dictionary to understand you peeps.

Isolated posts of a single poster.

I think your hat looks dumb

Well, I think your avatar looks smug.

[Zack]

I'm most confident with my read on Kage, probably due to the whole "we've been playing together for 11 years thing". Kage as scum, while he can certainly get down in the trenches when he needs to, tends to default more to the "consensus builder" type where he skates by, is friendly with everyone, and then cuts your throat at night. Town Kage says what's on his mind and I think there's a marked less concern for his own survival. I actually think he's lynched more as town than as mafia.

Slaan and Fred are on a notable tier down, though it's worth noting I haven't seen either of their scum games to this point (Fred might have been mafia once in a turbo but that doesn't count). I'm more comfortable reading Slaan simply from experience (observing his champs game, and being in there with him in Anni and being mafia to his town in Nego's Wild West game). It's hard to explain, just he's not hitting the tone tells he did in the other games yet. Give it time and I think I'll be able to nail him one way or the other.

Fred I'm least confident about but I think he's definitely had less engagement so far than he's capable of (yesyes, I know the same can be said for me, but I'm town so).

ok, I can see what you're saying about kage, makes me feel a lot better about him. I vaguely remember some game where Pizza caught him d1, then screamed about it the whole game after that ... ? @Askthepizzaguy do you remember what game this was? I don't think there were flips if that helps, might have been vanilla~ish.

disagree on the others. slaan seems fine, maybe he's a good wolf but not worth pursuing this early based on just paranoia. In my experience, having low thread involvement is not alignment-indicate for fred and fairly typical

[GeneralHankerchief]

I mean, I believe you gh

but I don't think you'd like about that regardless of your alignment

I guess it's just more about setting my expectations in this game for you. I got burned pretty hard in Pokemon, and outside of that I seem to always find something vaguely wolfy about you (e.g. the alias turbo where we called each other wolves until figuring it out at the very, very end).

I want to get better at reading you.

If I knew I'd honestly tell you.

The past six months I've tried out so many different playstyles over a few different sites it feels like I'm Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder forgetting who his natural self is.

Sorry if that's a crappy answer. It does make me continue feel good about you though.

[Logic]

If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bad GH! Tracking tools for mafia games. Whats next?Language analyzer with database from previous games with percentages of different words used in different roles... I better shut up, before Monty creates one.

Kommodus probably has just a program like this collecting dust and cobwebs somewhere.

[Csargo]

weak

Vote: csargo

cool

[Zack]

logic -- what do you think of the townreads kage has been getting?

[Fredwood]

cool

I feel like you were more active at least slightly in your self-defense in X-Com, I guess I should re-read that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?

A lot of the terminology we've been using here, including ISO, was only recently introduced (and Kage doesn't play that much). I like the question though.

[Csargo]

I feel like you were more active at least slightly in your self-defense in X-Com, I guess I should re-read that.

I honestly don't even know what's going on anymore. I said something about Zack that I thought was true at the time, and said it wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Now I'm getting shit on for it, which is fine, but I'm not sure what I'm sure what you expect me to defend myself from.

[Fredwood]

Oh good, the iso only works for one day phase.

[Kagemusha]

If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?

I was away for some time in a galaxy far away called real life..My glory days of mafia dated at the period just after fire was invented.

[Csargo]

I was away for some time in a galaxy far away called real life..My glory days of mafia dated at the period just after fire was invented.

The good ole days.

[Fredwood]

I honestly don't even know what's going on anymore. I said something about Zack that I thought was true at the time, and said it wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Now I'm getting shit on for it, which is fine, but I'm not sure what I'm sure what you expect me to defend myself from.

Well I feel your defense against me, which wasn't really a push, was along the same lines. From what I was able to see you had a strong reaction to DP and pushed it hard, and Pizza did the heavy lifting as far as defending you, so I guess it's not actually a fair comparison. Just wasn't as smart ass as I remember is all.

[Fredwood]

Well I feel your defense against me, which wasn't really a push, was along the same lines. From what I was able to see you had a strong reaction to DP and pushed it hard, and Pizza did the heavy lifting as far as defending you, so I guess it's not actually a fair comparison. Just wasn't as smart ass as I remember is all.

I mean there was a little suss, but you also agreed with a faulty premise and kind of got in a bad situation. Has your stance on Zack changed?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Completely aside: Kage, you'll note the skin I used in my screenshots for the "how to ISO/other stuff" post that Slaan linked.

[Csargo]

I mean there was a little suss, but you also agreed with a faulty premise and kind of got in a bad situation. Has your stance on Zack changed?

I think he's been better, so yeah.

[Kagemusha]

Completely aside: Kage, you'll note the skin I used in my screenshots for the "how to ISO/other stuff" post that Slaan linked.

There are still few gentlemen with poise and taste around these parts.

[Winston Hughes]

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

I don't think it is bad reasoning. I'm townreading him for that reason myself, as I don't think he could easily simulate that awkward tone so well without risking going too far with it.

As for the w/w bit, I was very clear that it was unlikely.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?),

I said the same about Manasi, and I stand by it. The read is pure gut, and I was totally clear on that. How you can read it as 'protecting', I have no idea. At best it could be taken as justification for not voting in that direction, and if it ever came to the point where I needed to justify such a decision then it would clearly be completely inadequate for the task.

and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction.

No paranoia here. My first 'serious' suspicions of you (the ones reinoe likes me for) weren't actually serious at all. Not to say they were completely inaccurate, but rather that there wasn't nearly enough there to distinguish from any given town game of yours.

With both you and pizza, my inclination has been to carry on publicly suspecting you for shallow reasons, whilst not making any real effort to actually read you properly.

Why?

If I told you that now, then it would defeat the object.

It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

As I alluded to earlier, after the last game, this is going to be a problem for me as town in this and any future games with this crowd.

There's no way to defuse it, so I'm just going to have to try and double my efforts as town to compensate.

[Winston Hughes]

Ah, screw it. The above Zack/GH exchange looks really townie.

The truth is that Zack has been considerably more solving than I've seen from him as scum in the past.

I just wanted to keep him in the firing line because it yields interesting exchanges.

[Kagemusha]

I want to hear more from these people about the initial round:

FOS

6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
9. Cuthillius
13. Choxorn
16. Xiahou