Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

Fred why am I your top town read?

Started with your GH joke, I liked you questioning of Pizza during his catchup. Also the sass at Zack during this time. It feels like you're keeping the thread in check and I like the tone. Considering I only have like two town leans in this game so far, you're the best of two, so take that as you will.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If you ever get around to doing this, give me a real, honest assessment.

If you don't do a 180 I'm going to need a good explanation.

As opposed to a fake, scummy assessment?

[Cuthillius]

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

[Askthepizzaguy]

Logic is scum and it was that simple, but even in a universe where I'm wrong, I didn't come up with this while being scum myself. Those reasons on Logic are what I really believe and that much should be very clear at this point. I know his meta and he's breaking it, in a scummy way with scummy motivations behind it. Whatever happens next, I should be in everyone's town.

I don't want to look this townie or be this invested in anything this early. Even when I tried to snipe dp as a wolf, I did it passive aggressively. I let it be his own fault that he was getting lynched.

I own the Logic lynch. And I'm sticking my big butt in everyone's faces. This is town pizza.

It's almost 3am, and I have an appointment that's several hours long plus visiting non-english speaking relatives. I can't be awake for a ton more hours and I need my calming down time, so I'm out. You all know where I stand and why, so I did my job this round. I should even be correctly readable now, which is a huge bonus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As opposed to a fake, scummy assessment?

Don't do it half assed or to confirm bias. Give it a real look where you can be wrong.

I don't mean to be insulting, but you're gonna go look to support your argument or refute me I think. Have an open mind.

[Cuthillius]

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

my what now

[Cuthillius]

zack's a villager

he has all the things i look for, plus being more open/communicative about said things and his thought process

pizza's very probably a villager as well, from posting/gamestate/way people are reacting to him/his attitude towards the game so far

lines up very nicely with the last several villager games i've played with him in the last >year, and not with his wolf games

so

yee

also i think winston's very villagery but i have no idea why so i'm putting that on hold for now

[Montmorency]

Logic is scum and it was that simple, but even in a universe where I'm wrong, I didn't come up with this while being scum myself. Those reasons on Logic are what I really believe and that much should be very clear at this point. I know his meta and he's breaking it, in a scummy way with scummy motivations behind it. Whatever happens next, I should be in everyone's town.

I don't want to look this townie or be this invested in anything this early. Even when I tried to snipe dp as a wolf, I did it passive aggressively. I let it be his own fault that he was getting lynched.

I own the Logic lynch. And I'm sticking my big butt in everyone's faces. This is town pizza.

It's almost 3am, and I have an appointment that's several hours long plus visiting non-english speaking relatives. I can't be awake for a ton more hours and I need my calming down time, so I'm out. You all know where I stand and why, so I did my job this round. I should even be correctly readable now, which is a huge bonus.

OK, but what is his scum meta specifically? In the next day or so.

[snip]

ehh.

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

As a matter of fact, I don't recall that @Dp101 ever explained what he was referring to.

[Xiahou]

Sheesh.... 25 pages already???

Vote: zack
For spamming out over 150 posts.

ATPG is a close second... but you can only vote for one.

[Cuthillius]

manasi who knows

started with content, which is by The Meta wolfy, but was quite aware that she did so and

hasn't really given enough at this point for any reasonable read of much solidity

[Montmorency]

I figured out who Slaan reminds me of: Schema. Some unique alias IDK, she only played in Representative Democracy here.

It was this post in particular:

Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

Anybody?

[Cuthillius]

i remember thinking slaan's opening yesterday was weak

it still lined up with how i feel he can play as villager

his posts since them have also been underwhelming/going in strange directions/unnecessary shadingtypestuff

it still lines up with how i feel he can play as villager

e.g. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053761668

[Zack]

yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

this is a lot of words for, "there's no real reason to scumread dp, but please, please don't let him out of the poe"

[Zack]

this is what I see from cuth so far this game (his opening and on this page)

- call strong players who he will nightkill villagers

- hem and haw on everyone else

[Cuthillius]

this is a lot of words for, "there's no real reason to scumread dp, but please, please don't let him out of the poe"

no that's kinda

the gist?

there is no reason to scumread him, and i do agree with you for the most part, if not to the magnitude that you do

[Cuthillius]

this is what I see from cuth so far this game (his opening and on this page)

- call strong players who he will nightkill villagers

- hem and haw on everyone else

...

i honestly don't know how i can be clearer or communicate my thought processes to you better

there was a time when i would have come in with many reads, including very probably several incorrect wolf leans

i've changed, and i have different aims and beliefs about the game than i did when i played with you in the past, for the most part

i legitimately have a wobbly read on everyone in the game except for the two people i have called villagers, as you said

i'm honestly doing my best to show the thoughts i am having

don't really know what else to say, but felt like i should say something

[Dp101]

As a matter of fact, I don't recall that @Dp101 ever explained what he was referring to.

Oh, I was referring to his consistent early pushing of me when he's scum. I'm pretty happy calling him town now.

[Cuthillius]

dp, gimme a spicy take

[Dp101]

dp, gimme a spicy take

Csargo is town.

[Zack]

...

i honestly don't know how i can be clearer or communicate my thought processes to you better

there was a time when i would have come in with many reads, including very probably several incorrect wolf leans

i've changed, and i have different aims and beliefs about the game than i did when i played with you in the past, for the most part

i legitimately have a wobbly read on everyone in the game except for the two people i have called villagers, as you said

i'm honestly doing my best to show the thoughts i am having

don't really know what else to say, but felt like i should say something

I don't have any problem with your communication this time around, per se. But you very quickly called me, winston, and pizza all villagers pretty easily, when despite the number of words you've written about others, haven't really come to any conclusions. It pings me, ducy.

[Zack]

Csargo is town.

not a wolf

or town?

I don't care for the push on him either, but that's a S P I C Y leap.

[Dp101]

not a wolf

or town?

I don't care for the push on him either, but that's a S P I C Y leap.

Well, a S P I C Y read was requested. I personally think that being worn out is a pretty likely reason for his volume and play thus far. I never really buy the "town got all the best players I guess we've lost" explanation for lost WIM, and personally, find lack of WIM to be pretty NAI overall. If the main thing against him is lack of content, then I think the case is bad, and other than lacking in quantity, his posts have been tonally sound, so, town.

[Cuthillius]

I don't have any problem with your communication this time around, per se. But you very quickly called me, winston, and pizza all villagers pretty easily, when despite the number of words you've written about others, haven't really come to any conclusions. It pings me, ducy.

i don't have much of a lean on winston

i've been burned in the past

i'm not going to maintain that as a read unless i actually can come up with some reason

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay so I got distracted doing other stuff and was only able to get to Fred and Barto.

Barto I still have no idea on, and probably won't until we get a flip. Wouldn't say no to lynching him but at the same time I fully recognize this is a lazy read. Don't care though.

Fred I feel somewhat better about, I think it was dp(?) who said that while he was around he made some pretty good points, and here I agree pretty much. Seems natural and focused, not really forcing anything. Fred can be town today.

[Cuthillius]

Well, a S P I C Y read was requested. I personally think that being worn out is a pretty likely reason for his volume and play thus far. I never really buy the "town got all the best players I guess we've lost" explanation for lost WIM, and personally, find lack of WIM to be pretty NAI overall. If the main thing against him is lack of content, then I think the case is bad, and other than lacking in quantity, his posts have been tonally sound, so, town.

how so tonally sound

i agree that lack of wim is a bad reason and is generally, including in this case, nai

nevertheless

do you mean "didn't make any obvious wolfslips"

or does the fact that there's a bad case on him make you think he's more villagery

but fair enough i'm fine with this read and the way you phrased it

[Dp101]

how so tonally sound

i agree that lack of wim is a bad reason and is generally, including in this case, nai

nevertheless

do you mean "didn't make any obvious wolfslips"

or does the fact that there's a bad case on him make you think he's more villagery

but fair enough i'm fine with this read and the way you phrased it

No obvious wolfslips and the posting has been honest. I don't particularly care about the fact that other people are wrong on him because atm I'm not sure that scum would pick him as a counterwagon if in danger (assuming we are right on logic).

[Zack]

i don't have much of a lean on winston

i've been burned in the past

i'm not going to maintain that as a read unless i actually can come up with some reason

didn't you just call him a villager?

[Csargo]

Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

1. GH
2. Csargo
3. Dp101
4. Pizza
5. Fredwood
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Zack
9. Cuthillius
10. Manasi
11. Slaan
12. Reinoe
13. Choxorn
14. Winston Hughes
15. Logic
16. Xiahou
17. Kagemusha

Any of the bolded people I'd consider suspicious. Probably throw WH in there for paranoia reasons as well, maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

[Zack]

maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

[Cuthillius]

didn't you just call him a villager?

but i have no idea why so i'm putting that on hold for now

mepmep3char