Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

I don't think it's happening, but if it somehow did it would be a reasonable lynch.

Would you summarize your reasons for me?

[Montmorency]

Would you summarize your reasons for me?

You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day. Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.

El Barto is kind of a wasted lynch for now, but it would be neutral policy lynch. Similar for Manasi.

Choxorn is edging toward old-school scummy lurking and popping-up.

Xiahou has only his entrance, and as the guy who invited him to play I want to see him play.

For now that sounds like a Logic lynch by default, which as I said is a case Pizza argued well.

[Zack]

You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day. Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.

This case makes sense only if you have literally never read a game I was in.

And that's not just me being cheeky.

[Montmorency]

This case makes sense only if you have literally never read a game I was in.

And that's not just me being cheeky.

For argument's sake let's say I never have. What then?

[Zack]

For argument's sake let's say I never have. What then?

I don't know what you want me to say here.

It's wrong because .... it's wrong. It's not correct, as a descriptor of my play here or of my meta in general. It's wrong on both counts.

[Zack]

re: the logic wagon

I looked over Logic in this game, I looked over Logic in the XCOM game. I still maintain my stance.

It looks the same to me, or at the least not different enough to be concerning. In every game I've seen him in, I thought he seemed vaguely suspicious and he was town in all of them. He got votes and pressure plenty in XCOM, and was eventually mislynched. I re-read the dead QT to try and get some insight into why Pizza was so confident Logic was town. I didn't see anything except "he's pure" or some variation a few times, which doesn't help me, and quoting a random post and saying it's a good post.

I still think this is exactly the situation Jarema found himself in IKEA Mafia, which sooh also hosted -- Pizza (and visor in that game too) worked themselves into a frenzy tunneling someone who often posts awkwardly as town and is mislynch bait, I told them I thought Jarema was basically rand and they were reading too much into it, they told me I was an idiot, Jarema was lynched, Jarema was town.

I'm completely baffled how it's gotten so much steam and backing, other than the obvious reason that Pizza has yelled about it nonstop and people obey Pizza when he does that.

[Winston Hughes]

I'm completely baffled how it's gotten so much steam and backing, other than the obvious reason that Pizza has yelled about it nonstop and people obey Pizza when he does that.

I feel you.

But I came to a Logic scumread for my own reason: control.

What I've seen of townie Logic, he exercises little conscious control and just posts what he thinks.

This Logic feels like he's thinking about it.

[Winston Hughes]

You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day.

I like this. It speaks to my residual doubt on Zack.

He's confounded his scum meta in way that's entirely plausible to me.

But if this is a new stage in his scumevolution, I can believe this might be a tell.

Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.

Is my connection with Zack just about our opening, or is there more recent evidence?

[Zack]

I like this. It speaks to my residual doubt on Zack.

He's confounded his scum meta in way that's entirely plausible to me.

But if this is a new stage in his scumevolution, I can believe this might be a tell.



Is my connection with Zack just about our opening, or is there more recent evidence?

Explain what you like about each of those points.

1. How do I feel "too free-spirited"
2. What trivial things am I committing to
3. What agendas am I gliding about

[Zack]

Also, anyone who is riding the train of "Logic is scum here, because he is noticeably and explicitly different from XCOM mafia, where he was town."

Read Barto in that game, read Logic in that game. Read them both in this game.

There's a stark difference in one of them, and it's not Logic.

[Montmorency]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No. The opposite if anything - typically a villager will put more effort into solving the game than a wolf who is merely giving the appearance of doing so.

* searching brain for any wolfy mechanics talk to discuss *

Hi Renata.

What's your approach to reading me going to look like this game? I don't think you ever town-read me in the only scum game you've seen of me so far, but elsewhere you've indicated you're not sure how anyone reads me. No need to worry about me using your answer to help me fool you, because if I'm a wolf I'll just kill you tonight anyways.

It does bother me a little the way GH canvassed for opinions on this, instead of giving one himself.

Visor thanking posts but not posting. Probably a wolf. Kappa.

I agree it is a weird interaction.

Bit weak, don't you think?

Vote: Winston Hughes

Winton Hughes, atheotes wolf team. Maybe Visor. Al spewed town or mafia, depending on your interpretation.

GH, Renata town.

I think defending someone, then quickly flipping on it to vote them as a way to defend yourself is not a good look. I'm sure Winston will try to handwave this away as a joke or something, but I don't really buy that.

Well start searching for something better, instead of waiting for it to drop out of the sky.

Your progression on Al just makes no sense to me. And your reaction to my accusation being to defend yourself with "it's okay because I don't care" doesn't exactly change my mind.

Ok, tell me your top 3 wolves and top 3 villagers Winston.

Exactly. The last quote especially downplays the fact that Winston defended Al and implied Renata should find a better vote, then suddenly voted Al when I said Winston sounded like he was defending a teammate. Then acts like that's not how it happened at all, it was just lolnotcaring (and while shitposting is a thing Winston does as town, particularly early on, not caring isn't).

What makes you think he is so towny?

This is a weird vote from you.

lol reaction tests. "I did something wolfy to see if you would call it wolfy. You've fallen into my trap, wolf!"

Won't be available until tomorrow probably. Go Falcons.

I don't see what about this warrants all the votes. I assumed he was just referring to reading the rules and shit. Who cares.

Yep, answering questions is something i simply can't do as a wolf. I've been caught.

Have to avoid the n1 kill somehow.

I think the cases on Arakhor and Al Sips are bad. I don't have a strong read either way, but the things they are being accused of are not alignment indicative in my opinion, and if they flip wolf I'm going to shrug and call it dumb luck, rather than good hunting. Arakhor in particular I have mislynched for being awkward d1 (when I was a wolf).

re: visor as a wolf

His effort and seriousness levels will depend a lot on his teammates and the game state. He tends towards doing less and joking/trolling more than he would as town, but he's certainly capable of being serious and doing a lot as a wolf too. I don't think I ever bother trying to read him d1 in any case.

Yes. If I have to break the current 3-way tie I'd vote Dp101 without hesitation.

I also think Winston popping in to say only this is not a good look.

In that game, choxorn got plenty of flak for his behavior, and at best his posting was defended as being not bad, not "pure". He was only "cleared" after a pretty dedicated bussing of his teammate. I think bringing it up like this is a fairly disingenuous way of discrediting a townread of choxorn in this game, and I say that without really having an opinion on chox here either way.

It's like I think you're wolfy.

Voting someone for not answering some random question you stubbornly refuse to repeat

Why the hell are people voting for Al. Low postcount is not wolfy in and of itself.

Why haven't you?

He went right back to al, is this a serious question? lol

Looking forward to you vaguely throwing suspicion my way all game for ???.

So Al not even caring about self-pres doesn't affect your read in any way? You'd rather talk about DP changing his vote for 30 seconds somehow clearing him?

Al seems like an easy mislynch. I repeat my thoughts from earlier, he hasn't done anything actually wolfy and if he does flip wolf it's just dumb luck.

Like, are you suggesting Al and I coordinated that in wolfchat? What would be the point? I don't get why that would even bother you or why you would care.

Zack, here are your notable D1 posts from Swords and Sorcery. You seem different somehow. I think you probably are.

I have time to figure it out.

[Zack]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Zack, here are your notable D1 posts from Swords and Sorcery. You seem different somehow. I think you probably are.

I have time to figure it out.

What's different, and why is it bad for me?

You're just saying things about me with no substance or meaning behind them.

Why'd you choose that specific game?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zack, here are your notable D1 posts from Swords and Sorcery. You seem different somehow. I think you probably are. I have time to figure it out.

Yeah... even just skimming them I feel a strongly different vibe.

Good catch. I agree. I have Zack way way too high.

[Montmorency]

I like this. It speaks to my residual doubt on Zack.

He's confounded his scum meta in way that's entirely plausible to me.

But if this is a new stage in his scumevolution, I can believe this might be a tell.



Is my connection with Zack just about our opening, or is there more recent evidence?

Opening and detachment, something about dancing. Not that it has to be identical, but your town-town exchanges D1 from the game I just referenced had more weight. It could still be low-key friendly banter and poking now, but it has my attention.

[Zack]

Also, anyone who is riding the train of "Logic is scum here, because he is noticeably and explicitly different from XCOM mafia, where he was town."

Read Barto in that game, read Logic in that game. Read them both in this game.

There's a stark difference in one of them, and it's not Logic.

No one listens to me.

Just endless paranoia.

ok

[Winston Hughes]

1. How do I feel "too free-spirited"

I struggle to recall your main points of focus in the game so far.

2. What trivial things am I committing to

Many and varied.

3. What agendas am I gliding about

The main ones.

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Manasi

[Csargo]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm real tempted here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You and others have contested this (mostly indirectly), but Zack feels too free-spirited. He's committing to trivial things, but gliding about the agendas of the day. Only Csargo agrees AFAIK. If Zack flips scum I think it spews you as scum-risk, but if not I think you're a solid town read. Pizza for one believes this kind of calculation only has a place later in the game.

El Barto is kind of a wasted lynch for now, but it would be neutral policy lynch. Similar for Manasi.

Choxorn is edging toward old-school scummy lurking and popping-up.

Xiahou has only his entrance, and as the guy who invited him to play I want to see him play.

For now that sounds like a Logic lynch by default, which as I said is a case Pizza argued well.

I'm actually reading Monty town, so help me.

There are weird non-consensus tinfoils, but he's not flooding the game with them, and a lot of other things he says I can follow, reasoning wise.

I feel like I should be seeing more resistance / objections / tinfoils and weird pushes with bizarre unreadable reasoning that he's massively confident on, if he were scum.

I think he can still do this, but he'd have to be committed to it as a strategy, it doesn't evolve organically from his normal persona.

[Slaan]

I'm actually reading Monty town, so help me.

There are weird non-consensus tinfoils, but he's not flooding the game with them, and a lot of other things he says I can follow, reasoning wise.

I feel like I should be seeing more resistance / objections / tinfoils and weird pushes with bizarre unreadable reasoning that he's massively confident on, if he were scum.

I think he can still do this, but he'd have to be committed to it as a strategy, it doesn't evolve organically from his normal persona.

Can't help you on meta reads. Just that I though Monty was scummy after his first few posts but he bounced back nicely lately... don't have him highly as town but I'd need progression and flips to sort him out further.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can't help you on meta reads. Just that I though Monty was scummy after his first few posts but he bounced back nicely lately... don't have him highly as town but I'd need progression and flips to sort him out further.

Oh he is going to be among the most difficult reads you ever get.

I can show you some of his scum games if it helps, thing is, he's also got a town game that's slowly evolving towards what you're seeing in this game, and it used to look a lot more like his scum game, which is why I gave up on reading him for a long time.

I think his town game is actually getting separation now.

[Kagemusha]

I hate posting with phone. Having five thumbs on each hand does not help..

[Slaan]

Oh he is going to be among the most difficult reads you ever get.

I can show you some of his scum games if it helps, thing is, he's also got a town game that's slowly evolving towards what you're seeing in this game, and it used to look a lot more like his scum game, which is why I gave up on reading him for a long time.

I think his town game is actually getting separation now.

Hm k. Then we could just lynch him today and save us the trouble going forward? ;) (j/k in case it's requried)

I've also decided to not read up on older games of you guys, just don't have the time/WIM... mostly WIM ^^. I also feel its often better to gain meta by playing ppl than reading up on past games where you already know their alignment going in... not sure on that point though. If I make it to endgame I'll reconsider for the then still living players maybe but certainly not D1 :).