Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

This is super lazy, you should vote for your biggest scumread regardless of context except for very specific exceptions.

This isn't one of them.

lolok either are my top scumread, except logic is more of a thing, if you want to twist that into an agenda then feel free to do so.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don't like this post.

Feels like Fredwood's playing 72/24, while GH is looking to eod.

lolok either are my top scumread, except logic is more of a thing, if you want to twist that into an agenda then feel free to do so.

Winston: You might be right, I don't usually play 72/24, but can you explain how this is a Bad Thing?

Fred: My concern is still your wording, if you were fine with both wagons then I think you would have just left it at that.

[Winston Hughes]

Winston: You might be right, I don't usually play 72/24, but can you explain how this is a Bad Thing?

Town play the day, scum play for the deadliine.

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: GH

[GeneralHankerchief]

Town play the day, scum play for the deadliine.

Can you elaborate?

[Winston Hughes]

Can you elaborate?

Town's job is to use the time available to rebalance the information equation in its favour.

Scum's job is to ensure town guesses wrong at eod.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Town's job is to use the time available to rebalance the information equation in its favour.

Scum's job is to ensure town guesses wrong at eod.

For the town part you're generally correct, but I think you're oversimplifying the mafia's job. There's a lot more nuance to it, working on multiple levels to ensure both short and longterm success.

Luckily all I have to do is just say what's on my mind this game.

[Winston Hughes]

Show me the good stuff, GH.

[Zack]

Don't like this post.

Feels like Fredwood's playing 72/24, while GH is looking to eod.

Town play the day, scum play for the deadliine.

Town's job is to use the time available to rebalance the information equation in its favour.

Scum's job is to ensure town guesses wrong at eod.

This progression seems off to me. It reads like you were trying to insert an opportunity to grandstand about that, because I've squinted my eyes in confusion a few times to try and find the relevance to the argument between GH and Fred, and it's not there.

On that point, I think they both come out of it looking good, actually.

GH's big post looks townie in itself, but it feels a little scummy to me that he'd make that his main engagement with the thread at this stage.

Where's the chat, GH?

This post got me thinking about one thing that bugged me about GH in pokemon. I had him near the top of my reads lists almost the whole time I was alive, embarrassingly, but I remember still being frustrated that he wasn't engaging with me more in the thread. He seemed to pop in and out, and if he didn't want to answer a question, he'd leave the thread and ignore it. In contrast, so far that hasn't been the case (even as I know he's busy with another game). Winston was on the right track in that, if GH is a wolf he probably just drops that text bomb and leaves. But he stuck around and picked fights. And I think he really did see things in Fred's post that bothered him, and he wanted to dig in.

Fred's side looks really pure -- dunno if as a wolf he's capable of taking that criticism so easily in stride like that. Fred's back up again, but I still think that post is problematic if one of Barto and Logic is a wolf.

Upon reflection, Winston probably good too -- I think he'd be more content to stay in the background a bit more if he was scum.

Csargo responding to the Xiahou post with a simple, "why?" is EXACTLY how I was going to respond to it. X only voted me because I had a lot of posts (even though he thanked one of them, so clearly he didn't really mind that much), he never said I was scummy that I remember, but he seems to be implying that he did find something legitimately wolfy about me. I've only played with him in Pirate Ship Mafia, don't remember his behavior at all outside of the 200 gold fiasco, which I don't think is relevant here. In any case, not enough of an issue yet for me to go digging through past games for clues.

[Fredwood]

Winston: You might be right, I don't usually play 72/24, but can you explain how this is a Bad Thing?

Fred: My concern is still your wording, if you were fine with both wagons then I think you would have just left it at that.

So now you're trying to direct what my response should have been? Saying that I have sympathy, something that I stated within the meat of the post, so it wasn't that much of an inference that the unfortunately meant that despite my humanity I'm likely to vote him. The wording is only misleading because you're actively altering the meaning.

Either way, I posted it because I felt like it and wanted people to know where I was at.

Couple that with your inference that I should not vote Logic because he's consensus and lolconensusisneverrightyouguyslol, then calling me lazy for not "voting" my top scumread (when Logic is a relatively top scum read)...tis strange.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So now you're trying to direct what my response should have been? Saying that I have sympathy, something that I stated within the meat of the post, so it wasn't that much of an inference that the unfortunately meant that despite my humanity I'm likely to vote him. The wording is only misleading because you're actively altering the meaning.

Either way, I posted it because I felt like it and wanted people to know where I was at.

Couple that with your inference that I should not vote Logic because he's consensus and lolconensusisneverrightyouguyslol, then calling me lazy for not "voting" my top scumread (when Logic is a relatively top scum read)...tis strange.

My gut says this post is great for Fredwood. Not saying GH is bad, in fact I don't think he is. Just think this is in line with what I've seen from him before. GH began with an attack on his process, so Fredwood is responding on that level. I also am feeling the same frustration with the lolconsensus argument. It's not an argument, it's an omen, and I don't believe in omens. Oh no, people are all voting someone, that must mean something. It doesn't. And it's been like 5 people or 6 people at a time. It's not an enormouswagon. It even got eclipsed by the choxorn voters. No such complaints that everyone thinks it it must be false have occurred. Attacking these arguments without necessarily drawing an alignment conclusion from it feels extremely natural, I don't feel it is passive aggression even if it has a similar-looking shape. It's questioning GH's process and methods in response to GH questioning his.

I feel like this kind of friction is going to happen on a day 1 where everyone has their own methods and ideas and all are struggling to win the debate and get their way. Even when people agree on suspects they begin to bicker on process.

It's like when town is chasing two scums in a mash but they still blow up at each other when the "wrong" one is getting pushed because everyone has to lead and get their way.

A perfect day is rare this early with this many opinions and personalities in the thread. When we see someone getting pushed, and we don't fully agree with the suspect or the methods, we push back. When we can't get our preferred person pushed, we have a lot of pent up energy and we start to look for enemies among those who seem to agree but won't cooperate.

I think there's underlying tension in the thread that is erupting in this post between Fred and GH and I don't think either person is mafia.

Maybe I'm not precisely describing what's happening here, and it might be coupled with other things on my mind, but here it is. My reaction is I think this is town/town and that some of the disputes that will happen here are expected, natural, and even nitpicky.