Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Dp101]

lolus

[Dp101]

I am actually sorry about that manasi. I drank Pizza's kool-aid and caused an unfortunate death.

INB4 he's actually finally bussing to the max and is going to kill all of us, and originally planned not to but decided he could get enough cred from killing GH and Zack after EOD1 to get to the end.

[Montmorency]

Seeing as it is now 430 am, and the game is still locked, and the last wolf is outed/lolcatting, gonna call it a night.

Your homework assignment is to read barto and tell me why he's town. If you don't think he is, you know what to do tomorrow.

Winston voted him d1 as well, so his streak is still alive.

Pizza, one thing to realize is that if we're trying to go by, 'kill the guyys who is not least likely to be on the scum team', then it kind of restricts freedom of movement as far as making cases and the day-work overall.

Let me suggest a new angle: what if something that looks like effective spew is actually emerging from a serious mistake by one or more mafia members? I say this because in the end you can't clean up at the early game like this without having taken advantage of serious mistakes by the opponent.

I think what Manasi's case means is we shouldn't restrict ourselves to one rung of the ladder at a time. And right now it's kind of impossible to proceed if you have literally no candidates other than Barto because they're all lock clear. If you've gone wrong somewhere, then where could it have been? Now you need to pick apart the layers of your own world model, 'if I'm mistaken here then it's possible that over there...', and you need to do it from inside your personal process because as you said unless I pull out some really unique logic on a specific instance you're going to wave it aside by referencing the casework you've already built. And it's important because we (me and you and likely the rest of the players) share the same upper half of the town/reads pile, and I think we're uneasy.

TLDR: Treat this like nothing is sacred, rather than trying to find who is least lock-clear and lynching them without reference to anyone else.

It's not a POE if it's a special selection to create one every time.


As far as workload, how about I work the devil's advocate on your core core town, the consensus upper half, relying on your own long analyses from N1 on why they're lock town, if you work devil's advocate on the bottom half, people like reinoe and Xiahou (and sure, me and Csargo too)?



And unrelated, but I've seen reinoe (and Slaan?) referred to here as both he/him and she/her. What do they in fact use?

[reinoe]

Meh. El Barto vs Manasi was a choice anyone could have made. Unsure why Manasi wasn't having a good time with the game so maybe outside factors? Sorry about being missing, I was entertaining a guest from out of town that I wasn't expecting. If it's not El Barto or Choxorn then there's gonna have to be serious re-assessments done though.

[Slaan]

God damnit manasi. Do we actually have to do work now?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Defend every wolf, complain ad nauseam, say I'm just wrong, do no work, find no townies.

Dies and is a townie.

I'm not gonna fall over myself and feel bad about that. Providing cover for woofs means you go.

[Slaan]

Sure sure.

Rereading the thread now a bit (for the next 20ish minutes at least) and I'm on page 6 rn. dp and Monty both spewed town from Zack imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not going to break my town circle because we hit one bump in the road that was doing nothing but helping wolves.

So you guys can if you like, I know where my vote is going. Do whatcha want.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sure sure.

Rereading the thread now a bit (for the next 20ish minutes at least) and I'm on page 6 rn. dp and Monty both spewed town from Zack imo.

This ^^^^ is basically all I'm asking.

If people don't like my town circle, make your own do your own work. Been asking since N1.

You can find enough townies to lock the game.

[Slaan]

Csargo also spewed a bit town imo after post 187 and prev interactions with Zack. I just don't think Csargo is the kind of player that would post that openly from what I've seen so far but write smth like that in wolfschat. Weak read though.

[Slaan]

Who is complaining pizza? Also for the most part I've been doing my own thing, just happens that I ended up at the same place you are ^^. Notable exceptions that I didnt necessarily thought Zack was scum or that Winston was town but the rest fits my impression as well.. lets see how the reread is going though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Who is complaining pizza? Also for the most part I've been doing my own thing, just happens that I ended up at the same place you are ^^. Notable exceptions that I didnt necessarily thought Zack was scum or that Winston was town but the rest fits my impression as well.. lets see how the reread is going though.

Got triggered a bit by a comment about Manasi and "Pizza's Kool-aid"

It's made out of wolf blood mixed with defending all the wolf blood. My apologies.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Given how much Zack and GH both defended Logic, given how much Zack and GH both defended each other, once I saw Zack and Manasi doing/saying nothing except how bad the game was and how I'm just pushing on poor poor townies, I really don't wanna hear it.

That's a normal assumption to make and a lot of other folks agreed.

[Slaan]

Dp lock town after Logic and GH bring him up in quick sucession (and not much else)... especially GH's post Post 220 where he calls Zack and dp as 'okay'... doubt he puts in both wolves here... in addition zack went after dp earlier a bit... yea dp locked down

[Slaan]

Oh yea, I wanted Manasi dead before Zack for sure so it's really not your fault :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh yea, I wanted Manasi dead before Zack for sure so it's really not your fault :)

no. Just annoyed a little by a comment.

Felt it was out of proportion and I needed to say something.

In any case, I've done all the work I'm ever going to do this game.

I spent many a sleepless night working on my POE. If it's wrong someone can tell me why like I asked. Done losing sleep over this game.

[Slaan]

Ugh GH's and Zacks open discussions makes it really hard to be sure about any spew though... bleh

[reinoe]

Upon re-read I think I'd like to lynch Choxorn over El Barto.

Barto had some early criticism of Zack that didn't look like bussing.


While briefly being discussed, earlier I'd like to mention Cuth is slightly spewed.

[Slaan]

no. Just annoyed a little by a comment.

Felt it was out of proportion and I needed to say something.

In any case, I've done all the work I'm ever going to do this game.

I spent many a sleepless night working on my POE. If it's wrong someone can tell me why like I asked. Done losing sleep over this game.

I think you've lost a lot of sleep over it already ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

Whichever. Also as I don't have any special powers, feel free to doc protect elsewhere. I don't really want DVC but I'm fine with being retired.

Protect at the top of my town, not me anymore. Thanks.

[Slaan]

Oh shit reinoe lock town

Given Zack commenting on pretty much everyone except Logic, he's either scum with him or mason with him or neighbors with him. I think they're talking to each other.

Regardless, Zack's quality vs quantity isn't very good at all. There's almost no gamesolving other than OMGUS.

Unvote: Logic

Vote: Zack

ATPG and GH probably town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is there an echo in here, slaan? :P

Luv u Slaan. Thanks for playing here. It's been a pleasure.

[Dp101]

Got triggered a bit by a comment about Manasi and "Pizza's Kool-aid"

It's made out of wolf blood mixed with defending all the wolf blood. My apologies.

Yeah, sorry about that, I just felt rather awful after killing someone who seemed so down on everything.

[Slaan]

Nah you gonna survive, don't worry about it. Wouldnt let you exit his purgatory until you've done your holy mission!

(This might be bait so I'm getting targeted instead.)

PS: Ty for having me, it's been indeed fun and suprisingly crushing so far.

[Slaan]

[url=https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761488&viewfull=1#post2053761488]Post 481[/post] from Zack seems to also spew Kage, me and Fred. I don't think it's often that mafia will ask a partner to explain a read on a 3rd mafia... what are you experiences on that?

[Slaan]

Post 481 from Zack seems to also spew Kage, me and Fred. I don't think it's often that mafia will ask a partner to explain a read on a 3rd mafia... what are you experiences on that?

€dit

[Slaan]

Just gonna keep reading for the next hour and a half in case I actually get ripped. Wanted to play Witcher 3 but meh, mafia more important!

[Slaan]

Barto probably town after this:

Vote: El Barto

If you're not going to do anything except take side shots, you can die.

Zack has defended Logic before who was similarily iffy as Barto so I'd assume he'd low key defend Barto as well.. or at least not go after him. Overall it seems that Zack/GH tried to powerwolf the shit out of this game which spectacularly failed so far. Same for Cuth basically.

[Montmorency]

I'm not going to break my town circle because we hit one bump in the road that was doing nothing but helping wolves.

So you guys can if you like, I know where my vote is going. Do whatcha want.

Don't break it, but if you're wrong you will have to, so like, expect the best but prepare for the worst. What could you have possibly missed? Game out scenarios reviewing your own stated logic and observations N1.



One important principle: Given how GH and Zack defended Logic D1, and then rolled over D2-3, they clearly did not plan for Logic to die. So it's probably not mutual hard bussing from D1 (wrt scum #4 I mean).

I did Cuth recently and in this light, town Cuth is consistent.

Xiahou's vote on Zack would therefore be consistent with scum distancing.

Reinoe picking at Logic and Zack simultaneously, town-consistent. But he did that in his early ISO, so his whole day needs to be reviewed.

Choxorn and Zack sussing each other (Zack harder), the former defending Barto and the latter attacking, then late-day both Zack and GH landing votes on Choxorn without any discussion and veering off at the very end is the sole plausible bussing maneuver. Pizza discussed this as possible bussing here; I'd add the possibility of a distancing feint, with the CFD being a way to ensure that Choxorn would not be lynched while . Note that after D1 Zack's significant comments were aimed at GH, Manasi, Monty, Slaan, DP, Choxorn, or Pizza. This, during N1:

This is choxorn's only post so far.

This is what he found important to point out.

And he voted Choxorn D2, which could be planned spew.

And going down the D2 Zack-Choxorn well (not in chrono roder):

That sequence made me think, hey, I'll give him space to work and do his thing. But he's not made much use of it.

I'd be lying if I said some it isn't also just, there are a good number of people who are cleared or at least look good from yesterday. POE and all.

I think Chox is a better lynch still, fwiw.

Shading Barto and Choxorn.

This gamestate is probably too easy, I'm guessing there's at least one wolf who was balls deep in Logic's lynch. Can't count the number of games where wolves made a hard d1 bus that bought them some time in the short term.

That said, it's not worth too much concern yet.

One of several posts since EOD1 I believe that insisted upon there being hard bussing around Logic. Now that GH and Zack have flipped - perhaps we could say he was lying?

I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who is even that wolfy right now, other than Barto and Choxorn. Maybe Monty or DP for what I still think were red flag EODs. Someone should take a closer look at the wagons.

I'm in an offsite game that starts tomorrow and will be much more active than this one, and Shadow of War comes out on Tuesday. Things seem to be well in hand anyways, don't need me much.

Shading Barto and Choxorn, and also Monty and DP over EOD events.


But I'm getting into digression. The principle for reviewing D1 should be distancing but not bussing.

Slaan and DP are too much to chew for now. I'll go ahead with the others for now.

[Csargo]

I am actually sorry about that manasi. I drank Pizza's kool-aid and caused an unfortunate death.

INB4 he's actually finally bussing to the max and is going to kill all of us, and originally planned not to but decided he could get enough cred from killing GH and Zack after EOD1 to get to the end.

This is the second comment you've made that weirds me out about your alignment. I'm pretty sure you're town, but Manasi was a pretty good option given how she was playing.