Early Campaign

[ConjurerDragon]

As I have lost Agincourt another 3 times I need some diversion and started a new early campaign as Germany.

What would be a better unit to use for garrison duty - the +1 valour peasants from Provence or the Slav Warriors from Bohemia that Germany can recruit? Both have the same number of soldiers and the same upkeep and the Slav Warriors would normally have better stats than Peasants, but would the +1 valour change that?

[Gilrandir]

I use garbage units for garrison duty only in emergency - for example if you have an imminent rebellion and you can't pull in reinforcements from anywhere. I believe that you will use these garrison units some day, so there is no need to train those who are likely to fail you in a future battle.

[ConjurerDragon]

I use garbage units for garrison duty only in emergency - for example if you have an imminent rebellion and you can't pull in reinforcements from anywhere. I believe that you will use these garrison units some day, so there is no need to train those who are likely to fail you in a future battle.

Sure, I would love to have great units everywhere but at the start how could I afford that? I already need combat ready units in the borderprovinces so to get very high taxes from all provinces I always filled them with lowcost support units with a high number of soldiers.
And combat troops have not only the disadvantage of a higher support cost / turn, but most have less soldiers so that they are actually less good at quelling unrest than the cheap bulk units.

[Gilrandir]

Sure, I would love to have great units everywhere but at the start how could I afford that? I already need combat ready units in the borderprovinces so to get very high taxes from all provinces I always filled them with lowcost support units with a high number of soldiers.
And combat troops have not only the disadvantage of a higher support cost / turn, but most have less soldiers so that they are actually less good at quelling unrest than the cheap bulk units.

I still try to produce quality troops, even at the outset of the campign - your provinces tend to stay loyal even if the taxes are high. For some time. Later they may change their mind. But you know better with the campaign map before your eyes. Yet I would like to offer some tips you might find useful (if you aren't aware of them).

1. If I don't plan any immediate offensive I don't keep combat armies in border provinces - that is if I can't afford them. In such a position I keep a good army in a hinterland province adjacent to as many border provinces as possible. Thus if anyone attacks one of those border provinces you can withdraw your garrison force to the fortress and come back with a vengence the next turn. Moreover, this tactics will help you to keep your enemies at unawares as to your real strength - without agents they won't be able to see beyond your border provinces. They say it works especially well if you play the Northumbrians in VI and keep the bulk of your army in Elmet.

2. There are other ways to keep the provinces loyal without garrisoning them heavily. The first is to place a spy in it. The second is to appoint a governor with a high dread rate (two or more).

[macsen rufus]

Yep - what Gilrandir said.

I NEVER train a single unit of peasants in any campaign, unless I have a severe emergency and no other choice. I generally use spearmen for 'bulking up' numbers, because they at least have some combat role.

They say it works especially well if you play the Northumbrians in VI and keep the bulk of your army in Elmet.

Exactly - this is my strategy for running a Northumbrian campaign - weak border garrisons attract weak invasions which are easily repelled, strong border forces invite a strong invasion... I did a long post in the Guides subforum about this for Northumbria.

+1 for spies and high-dread governers. Also religious buildings, town watch etc which add to happiness. I also tend to build only watch towers and not border forts - the happiness boost is the same, but border forts tend to catch all the enemy spies and assissins. Without a border fort then your own agents get the credit for the enemy agents caught, and valour up quite nicely....

[ConjurerDragon]

But how does that work regarding terrain? Normally I would defend borderprovinces that are favourable for a defence (e.g. bridge, mountains). If I garrison the border only with a token force and keep the real army in the 2nd row, won’t I be the attacker (and thus suffer from my own provinces terrain advantages) if I send the army to take the province back that is being sieged by the invader?

[Gilrandir]

Without a border fort then your own agents get the credit for the enemy agents caught, and valour up quite nicely....

This is good in case you have the spies. At the outset of the campaign you usually don't, so you will face the choice of a lower loyalty + the possibility of enemy's spies and assassins to penetrate your realm (although, to tell the truth, the enemies don't have such harmful agents at the outset either) vs future prospects of multistarred spies of your own. For me the choice is definitely the former - and you can always dismantle the border fort later on to achieve the spies' desired valor level.

But how does that work regarding terrain? Normally I would defend borderprovinces that are favourable for a defence (e.g. bridge, mountains). If I garrison the border only with a token force and keep the real army in the 2nd row, won’t I be the attacker (and thus suffer from my own provinces terrain advantages) if I send the army to take the province back that is being sieged by the invader?

1. If you have a token garrison force the enemy isn't likely to send much more - just enough to outnumber the one he sees in the province. So when you arrive with the bulk of your army later you aren't likely to meet your match numerically.

2. The border terrain the enemy will have to cross invading your province isn't the same as the one your reinforcements will have to cross from your hinterland province into your border province. Moreover, you won't have to take back the province. You will have the message that your besieged garrison sorties out. Of course it will do it to join the relieving force it will see from the high battlements of your stronghold.

[drone]

What would be a better unit to use for garrison duty - the +1 valour peasants from Provence or the Slav Warriors from Bohemia that Germany can recruit? Both have the same number of soldiers and the same upkeep and the Slav Warriors would normally have better stats than Peasants, but would the +1 valour change that?

To answer your stat question, each valour level adds +1 to attack and defense, and +2 to morale. So the Slav Warriors are still the better unit overall.

[DEB8]

You will have the message that your besieged garrison sorties out. Of course it will do it to join the relieving force it will see from the high battlements of your stronghold.

I find that the besieged force only joins the relief force on the battlefield when the relief force is less than 16 units. The besieged units usually join in ( as reserves ) eventually, when your army loses some of its original 16 units. Sometimes they will NOT sally out at all ! But you can forestall this latter problem by creating a Group of the Castle's units and dragging them out of the castle and onto the province / map ; thus forcing them to join the attack. NB : This tactic may even get them into the battle as part of the 16 units you start with...

[Gilrandir]

I find that the besieged force only joins the relief force on the battlefield when the relief force is less than 16 units. The besieged units usually join in ( as reserves ) eventually, when your army loses some of its original 16 units. Sometimes they will NOT sally out at all ! But you can forestall this latter problem by creating a Group of the Castle's units and dragging them out of the castle and onto the province / map ; thus forcing them to join the attack. NB : This tactic may even get them into the battle as part of the 16 units you start with...

You may be right. I never watched closely the composition of the joint army. Yet my point was a little bit different. Whether you get the besieged garrison join the fray or not, you will still get a message about the sally. And the ensuing battle will not be taking back the province.

[DEB8]

Yet my point was a little bit different. Whether you get the besieged garrison join the fray or not, you will still get a message about the sally. And the ensuing battle will not be taking back the province.

Your point re "taking back the province" was noted. My comment was to specify other noted information.

[ In particular, that despite the Sally Out message, the units do not always Sally Out... ]