Why is There Death and Suffering if God is all Loving

[total relism]

What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and to go before it.
It came to the edge of the fire and the light faded as if a cloud had bent over it. Then with a rush it leaped across the fissure. The flames roared up to greet it, and wreathed about it; and a black smoke swirled in the air. Its streaming mane kindled, and blazed behind it. In its right hand was a blade like a stabbing tongue of fire; in its left it held a whip of many thongs.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come! '
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'

The dark figure streaming with fire raced towards them. The orcs yelled and poured over the stone gangways. Then Boromir raised his horn and blew. Loud the challenge rang and bellowed, like the shout of many throats under the cavernous roof. For a moment the orcs quailed and the fiery shadow halted. Then the echoes died as suddenly as a flame blown out by a dark wind, and the enemy advanced again.
'Over the bridge!' cried Gandalf, recalling his strength. 'Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you. I must hold the narrow way. Fly!' Aragorn and Boromir did not heed the command, but still held their ground, side by side, behind Gandalf at the far end of the bridge. The others halted just within the doorway at the hall's end, and turned, unable to leave their leader to face the enemy alone.
The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils.

Great stuff, I love Tolkien. I thought you were a fan as well given your name. Here is a short bio i wrote of him

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...f-Middle-Earth


Are you on any Tolkien forums? what have you read of tolkien?

An arbitrary assumption. I might as well claim the opposite.

But how could you support a literal fire in this case?

So he knew what would happen to Adam and Eve? He knew that his creation would go wrong? If those things were meant to be, it means that it was God's will. So it wasn't Adam's rebellion or sin, it was fulfilment of God's will and designs.

Yes he knew what would happen. No it was not his intention or will. He willed a creation with free will to chose to follow him and not to sin.

[Gilrandir]

Are you on any Tolkien forums?

No.

what have you read of tolkien?

Almost all there is to read. My PhD thesis was based on analysis of his Legendarium.

But how could you support a literal fire in this case?

I can't. But I equally can't see any proofs it is otherwise. So since one can't prove the use of metaphor, one must abide by the literal meaning of the word used.

Yes he knew what would happen. No it was not his intention or will. He willed a creation with free will to chose to follow him and not to sin.

Yet he knew Adam would sin. He was meant to sin. It was his "function" in the paradise. If he was meant to, he wasn't to blame. Just like Judas - his "function" was to betray Jesus. Without Judas there would have been no resurrection. Thus both can't be blamed for what they have done. Hence turning Adam out was senseless and heartless.

[total relism]

No.



Almost all there is to read. My PhD thesis was based on analysis of his Legendarium.




I can't. But I equally can't see any proofs it is otherwise. So since one can't prove the use of metaphor, one must abide by the literal meaning of the word used.





Yet he knew Adam would sin. He was meant to sin. It was his "function" in the paradise. If he was meant to, he wasn't to blame. Just like Judas - his "function" was to betray Jesus. Without Judas there would have been no resurrection. Thus both can't be blamed for what they have done. Hence turning Adam out was senseless and heartless.

That is to bad. Their are some good ones if your interested.

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php
http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...erl/gforum.cgi
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/index.php?



Holy crap that is great. I have read more of him as a person as i wanted to get to know the mind that created middle earth. But I am now getting into the lore aspects of it. I will be starting the histories of ME next. I would love to talk with you on some of this stuff. In fact I am going to make a thread on a subject on this forum and would love your expert evaluation of it. I will post it.

Does the Silmarillion Contradict Third age History?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053775601
In Search of Lore Accurate Size of a Mumakil
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...e-of-a-Mumakil



I just think the passage is clear they were not literally burnt. Seems to indicate non literal fire. Or at least one that does not consume physical bodies.


Both judas and adam were guilty and rebelled against god. Adam was never meant to sin, he was meant to live eternally in relationship with god. His proper function was to follow god and be a steward of earth, eat good food and have sex. His own free will caused the fall. God chose a world with free will and thus accepted the future fall of man. Judas worked on his own choice as well. God uses the bad choices of mankind to do his work yes, but they disobey on their own. A great example is jospeh in egypt. His brothers did evil and sold him into slavery, but god used that for good. But god does not approve of what they did.

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people[a] should be kept alive, as they are today.
-Gen 50.20

[Gilrandir]

That is to bad. Their are some good ones if your interested.

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/index.php
http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...erl/gforum.cgi
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/index.php?

Both judas and adam were guilty and rebelled against god. Adam was never meant to sin, he was meant to live eternally in relationship with god. His proper function was to follow god and be a steward of earth, eat good food and have sex. His own free will caused the fall. God chose a world with free will and thus accepted the future fall of man. Judas worked on his own choice as well. God uses the bad choices of mankind to do his work yes, but they disobey on their own. A great example is jospeh in egypt. His brothers did evil and sold him into slavery, but god used that for good. But god does not approve of what they did.

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people[a] should be kept alive, as they are today.
-Gen 50.20

You may be right about Adam. But not about Judas. If it hadn't been for him there would never have been God's son sacrificing himself, nor resurrection, nor Easter and other things which are the foundations of Christianity.

[total relism]

You may be right about Adam. But not about Judas. If it hadn't been for him there would never have been God's son sacrificing himself, nor resurrection, nor Easter and other things which are the foundations of Christianity.

I think god would have accomplished his plan using whoever he could. I dont think judas is central. their was enough people that wanted jesus dead, judas just gets to much credit imo.

[Gilrandir]

I think god would have accomplished his plan using whoever he could. I dont think judas is central. their was enough people that wanted jesus dead, judas just gets to much credit imo.

Yet it was Judas who was chosen. So there is np use denouncing him for what he was appointed.