04/12 Generic Fantasy WW Game Thread

[ladd]

wait, you are syaing you have no read on me /gh/zack but you have one on like newyin for example?

that'd be peculiar

[Insaner]

vote: GeeEich

[Egix]

also egix, can you explain why you villa read fable/logic more in depth?

From what I've read of Fable's games (mainly Champs), I would say that they are more aggro (can't really think of a better term than this, it's like they actually do a lot of stuff to look town) as scum, and more laid-back (or, dare I say, lackadaisical?) as town. Ofc I think that Fable's play this game is more in line with the latter.

As for Logic, my impression of his meta is that he's a bit like me - obvious scum as scum, and not-obvscum as town. I thought that p#321 (idk if this forum has a button/tags for postnums, apologies) was a well-thought-out post (hence why I described it as a source of good vibes) and I feel that if he were scum it would have been... not as good? Obviously this read doesn't apply had that post been written by anyone else, and this isn't as strong as the Fable read.

[Egix]

wait, you are syaing you have no read on me /gh/zack but you have one on like newyin for example?

that'd be peculiar

I forgot Newyn was a thing tbh
He's null for me rn

vote: GeeEich

Huh, I'm intrigued by this. Lemme find your reasoning.

[ladd]

alrighty thanks

guess I ll read some of your games to check if it s true there is such a difference between your villa play and your wolf play

[ladd]

alrighty, I knew you were probably gonna answer like this but worth a shot anyway

so why did you not care to see why people were wolf reading bart and pzelda?

still would like this answered too

[Egix]

Is dya a busser?

I'm pretty sure she's well known for it. IIRC she herself says that she busses like a madman.

[Insaner]

Huh, I'm intrigued by this. Lemme find your reasoning.

The first reason is he was trying to find reasons to move votes off pzelda yesterday. I might provide quotes when I'm on computer but not rn.

The other reason is this post.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My problem with that post is that it's just a bad post regardless of the person you're townreading's alignment. It's like... of all the things to make a joke read for, using "thrice" instead of "three times"? I know you dropped the phrase "tonal memes read" but it doesn't even make sense really, just seemed super awkward in general. And then to have PZelda flip mafia, and have you make that post at a time when they weren't picking up much heat (and thus your post was more likely to disappear into the ether assuming PZelda would have survived for longer than he did)... just oof.

I don't believe GH believes his scum read on you. Like, you have so many things going against you: you ended up on what seems to be the only villager wagon at EoD (and the timing of that vote was horrible as well imo), you had no good interactions with any of the flipped wolves, and this quote where you give a meme read on pzelda is truly unfortunate. I think that all of the above means that we oughta just hammer you right now tbh. And yet he is giving you so much benefit of the doubt here which I just don't understand. It's like he has 0 faith in you flipping scum.

[Insaner]

Btw the way ladd is questioning Egix right now feels honest to me.

[Insaner]

I guess it isn't the fact that GH is giving Egix the benefit of the doubt itself but rather the contrast between how he started today ("Egix is always the lynch") and the sudden loss of conviction that is putting me off so much. Egix didn't make any towny posts in that time and GH didn't come up with any new suspects either so I don't understand where this change of heart is coming from.

[Egix]

so why did you not care to see why people were wolf reading bart and pzelda?

Sry, missed this

I had read enough to get the general idea of why they were being scumread but I guess I just hadn't found any of it compelling enough.

[merl1n]

how many bads are we probably looking at in a game this size? insaner keeps talking like there's only 1 left but that seems like not many. we usually have 9 good/3 bad in our games

[Insaner]

how many bads are we probably looking at in a game this size? insaner keeps talking like there's only 1 left but that seems like not many. we usually have 9 good/3 bad in our games

There are usually 4 wolves in a 17er. I was assuming Egix was a wolf and I was talking about his remaining partner, but I am now beginning to doubt it.

[merl1n]

There are usually 4 wolves in a 17er. I was assuming Egix was a wolf and I was talking about his remaining partner, but I am now beginning to doubt it.

i could have sworn you said something about egix being the last, but it was a bleary eyed read through of stuff i missed overnight on my phone. ill chalk it up to misreading/misunderstanding, ok thx

[merl1n]

I think it's probably just Egix tbh.

Was gonna ask what Choxo did in order to remove himself from exactly rand category but they just claimed tracker.

was this post i think my brain added a left in there somewhere

[merl1n]

it feels awfully convienent that the 2 ppl i was suspecting are semiclearing each other with the track to someone going nowhere. they probably arent bad together tho, espec with choxorn saying it doesnt clear egix

[Csargo]

I guess it isn't the fact that GH is giving Egix the benefit of the doubt itself but rather the contrast between how he started today ("Egix is always the lynch") and the sudden loss of conviction that is putting me off so much. Egix didn't make any towny posts in that time and GH didn't come up with any new suspects either so I don't understand where this change of heart is coming from.

Where are you seeing a loss of conviction? Am I just completely missing something here?

[Montmorency]

PART I

Prefatory statement: Have fun with your towncore guys but I've learned from painful experience that you shouldn't take them too rigidly or extensive. Many a successful town has been felled by complacency out of the early game. GH for one knows this well. Giving people until F3 never works because there's inevitably too much disruption in the meantime. I'm still lock town though. And I still have to produce wagonomics.

I'm about to go to bed, and while obviously we still have a long while to go before the day ends, I'd much rather prefer an Egix lynch here over a Choxorn one (or one for anybody else, but this post is talking about Choxorn specifically). This is partly because I think Egix has straight-up been scummier than Chox, partly because of various nightkill-related musings I've had that I'll share if I deem the time to be right. Somebody ping me about this tomorrow or Monday in case I forget to elaborate on it.

I don't know if you've done this yet, but I ping.

I don't think I can really defend how crappy I was yesterday- I'm busy IRL a lot and don't always pay enough attention and that turns into me being way too inactive.

Current thoughts: Zack is lock town, merl1n, Insaner, ladd, GH, and Fable are all likely town, lots of the thread looks somewhere between town and scum to me. Looks like lots of folks wanna lynch either me or Egix today based on how we acted yesterday, and I also thought he was suspicious yesterday- but I also tracked him doing nothing last night, which is far from clearing but is certainly a point in his favor.

Really need to read things a bit more to get a stronger idea of who's scummy, I'll get to that later but for now I need to go eat dinner.

Now, I'm not saying we should lynch Choxorn today but his unnecessary and jarring tracker claim makes me think the following, if you could hear my thoughts as I was stylistically representing myself reading them to you:

KILL CHOXORN

KILL HIM WITH FIRE

HE'S A MAFIA TRACKER

HE'S GONNA GO DEEP FOR GOD's SAKE SOMEONE DO SOMETHING

If he goes deep we're all dead

0. Tracker is almost as mafiatized a role as roleblocker.
1. There was no reason for Choxorn to make that claim in this gamestate.
2. Despite a tracker claim there's little reason to expect town-Chox to resolve by nightkill because, if he were town Mafia would have many other plausible targets - whom Choxorn could point to to excuse his own survival as scum-Chox.
3. Any Town PRs out there, blocking or investigative or whatever, get on Chox's rear tonight.

Choxorn is one of those players who can go deep UTR when his partners have been demolished. If only Renata were here.

But I'll let it slide today. Not tomorrow or any day after, but today - not you.

Tally:
4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius,)
3 Ladd (Fable, Logic, Egix)
1 Choxorn (Newyn)
2 PZelda (Insaner, GH)
1 Newyn (Choxorn)


Not voting: Merl1n, Dyachei, Csargo

This seems correct?

From 1.5 hour before EOD.

VERY INTERESTING

I am lock town my dudes

Love it when I'm lock town.

Vote: Cuth

[Montmorency]

PART II

Well since it looks like Egix has given up I suppose there's no use holding this back now. What I was gonna say is I think that Cuth is the last wolf based on the following quotes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GH, Zack, and others should tell me if I'm right to notice that Cuth is more passive-aggressive lately. Is that real or is my meta busted?

lol

you don't say

This post sounds like caught scum.

also for post game credit, I had empoof as a PR

that's the thign that kinda makes me fear this game maybe not be super easy as we are thinking since after that EoD I feel empoof would be the nk only if choxorn is a wolf or if wolves are paying attention and PR read him as well

Can you explain what you mean? What does an Empoof NK have to do with Chox specifically being mafia?

I'm also chuckling at insaner's God read of capage now being correct 3 out of 4 games, which is literally just rand lol

How is 3/4 rand?

So, wanna get Choxorn, or not yet?

Also let's take a moment to acknowledge that I had the sickest soul read of all time

Renata soul read on Choxorn Representative Democracy - and then she and Cass nabbed Barto soon after.

But yeah, good job if you're town.

any ORGer has tips to read csargo?

Read the two mini games in 2018. In one he was scum, in the other he was town. My reads were switched though. There was also the Pokemon game in 2017 where (primarily) Zack nailed him for scum.

My career gut on him is probably ~rand in the end.

This post is so stupid

I don't really get it, but why is it stupid? Is merlin your partner?

I think merl1n wanting to hold me accountable for Capage flip shows he really had no clue he was going to flip wolf. His posting was super villagery even though his reads were very wrong by the looks of it. He's still in my top towns.

Yes. Merlin is mislynch reach goals for mafia IMO.

Insaner was willing to vote you, and the general impression I was getting was that other Monty voters might be moving off him (e.g. on to Zelda/Bart)

Who were the voters on me besides Zelda, Bart, and Cuth?

[merl1n]

open ? for ppl

is ladd some1 with good reputation?

the way i see it we had 4 options yesterday by the end: pzelda, el barto, ladd, and choxorn. bads knew that el barto and pzelda were both bad, so its important to consider that when looking through what happened. why did pzelda and el barto end up as top 2 vote getters if there were other options? im good and i was pushing ladd. empoof was good and was pushing choxorn. but ppl didnt do either

i still dont understand how el barto or pzelda were correctly identified. ive read their posts KNOWING they are bad last night and it doesnt seem any different from some of the other players who werent posting much yesterday. i can accept maybe its the kind of thing where when u know someone rlly well u pick up on small things, i do that in irl games where some of my friends i can just know when they are bad because its small differences from when good

i think with choxorn and egix not both being bad we had to have had some1 voting for a bad who is also a bad and knew they were doomed. idk if i want to kill ppl who voted for bads yet though

[Insaner]

Still reading up but pls don't listen to Monty on Chox lmao

[Cuthillius]

can you elaborate on both of the bolded?

I know the first is kinda self explaining but I wanna know exactly how you felt about people on both wagons at that point and what made you switch like that

4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius)

most recent vote tally at the time

monty was trending up relatively heavily, i've been reading zack soundly villager all game, and i also thought empoof was town-- my only real hesitation there was gh wolf-reading him pretty strongly

didn't and still don't really have much of a personal opinion on ladd's alignment

at this point i was on board with the idea of el barto because, like i said (more or less), he typically has a certain fire that was, as zack pointed out, definitely lacking

also i think there's been a similar lynch in the past with me on the wrong side? something like that

i remember this being a Thing before

but the other option was just a completely disengaged village barto who'd been about the most talked about person this game, and that wouldn't be a terrible lynch either if it came to that

also while i was initially reading pzelda as villagery because his posting was too awkward, other people who actually knew him were saying otherwise so that was trending down

but i didn't have as much reason to go there or anywhere else, barto was the strongest wolfread i had apart from private tinfoils which were coming in and out of style throughout the phase

[ladd]

4 El Barto (Montmorency, Zack, Empoof, ladd)
3 Montmorency (El Barto, Pzelda, Cuthillius)

most recent vote tally at the time

monty was trending up relatively heavily, i've been reading zack soundly villager all game, and i also thought empoof was town-- my only real hesitation there was gh wolf-reading him pretty strongly

didn't and still don't really have much of a personal opinion on ladd's alignment

at this point i was on board with the idea of el barto because, like i said (more or less), he typically has a certain fire that was, as zack pointed out, definitely lacking

also i think there's been a similar lynch in the past with me on the wrong side? something like that

i remember this being a Thing before

but the other option was just a completely disengaged village barto who'd been about the most talked about person this game, and that wouldn't be a terrible lynch either if it came to that

also while i was initially reading pzelda as villagery because his posting was too awkward, other people who actually knew him were saying otherwise so that was trending down

but i didn't have as much reason to go there or anywhere else, barto was the strongest wolfread i had apart from private tinfoils which were coming in and out of style throughout the phase

where?

and why was monty trending up?

if you explained it yday, just say so and I can dig it up on my own

[merl1n]

0. Tracker is almost as mafiatized a role as roleblocker.
1. There was no reason for Choxorn to make that claim in this gamestate.
2. Despite a tracker claim there's little reason to expect town-Chox to resolve by nightkill because, if he were town Mafia would have many other plausible targets - whom Choxorn could point to to excuse his own survival as scum-Chox.

i read the opening rule thing after part of it got quoted to me d1, and it said powers are randomized, so my understanding is that any role can be good or bad. i dont understand why you think #1 here? everyone had him and egix as the two ppl that looked the worst, and he had clarifying information potentially on both ppl

#2 also seems wrong bc if hes not killed and we narrow it down to only 1 bad left he is incredibly strong as a role. so he either has to clear ppl as bad or bads have to kill him or risk getting caught

with regards to #3, investigative seems fine but not blocking??? he can either catch a bad if good or has to target in who we want him to target as bad and be accountable for target selection/result

[merl1n]

tracker is the investigative role i play w/ the most in irl games bc no one likes cops. it's rlly weak early in game but rlly strong with most of the bads dead. i actually kind of think chox might be good for the claim bc as bad it means he never wins when making that claim and not dying

[ladd]

Can you explain what you mean? What does an Empoof NK have to do with Chox specifically being mafia?

empoof is a strong player, but in this game there are other strong players who are also villas

if chox is a villa, empoof didn't have the best EoD so it'd be weird to kill him over someone like zack or gh (who I personally thought was gonna get attacked tonight)

[Insaner]

Where are you seeing a loss of conviction? Am I just completely missing something here?

In the post I quoted, lol.

[merl1n]

vote: egix

[Cuthillius]

also @ ladd, i'm not going to quote specific posts of mine because i don't think that's really going to help anything

is less a "i did this specific thing" than a "i'm playing outside of my typical wolf range" in a fair number of ways and i'm disappointed people like gh in particular aren't picking up on that where i'd expect them to than a "i'm objectively super villagery"

in particular: i'm terrible at motivating myself to play as a wolf unless there's good reason to

if the game looks quite winnable/i'm widely villageread OR i have wolfmates i know and trust

i can easily outpost my village self if i need to in terms of general wim, whether that's length or frequency or intensity

if none of that is the case, well

i typically post like a wet paper bag pretty quickly

granted, if there's a four-wolf team that's perhaps not the most compelling argument but it's very definitely a thing

furthermore

this is sort of a two-headed point

number one, i bussed in some unfortunate places many years ago and the reputation has managed to stick with me for a long time since i've renounced the practice in almost all cases

if i did so in this particular game i'd be setting myself up perfectly for loads of fun in that department

number two as such my wolf game is typically to try to outvillage the villagers, which i actually manage surprisingly frequently, and then convert, which i don't

but i typically go out of my way not to bus and to sort of poke the game in different directions

which, let's be honest, hasn't really happened this game

i've been pretty passive and not expecting anyone to listen to me or trying to make them, but not in a dejected sort of way like i've given up?

iunno

it's a thing

[Insaner]

empoof is a strong player, but in this game there are other strong players who are also villas

if chox is a villa, empoof didn't have the best EoD so it'd be weird to kill him over someone like zack or gh (who I personally thought was gonna get attacked tonight)

Zack said he was gonna be busy on N1. GH was somewhat wolfread by a few people and so were you to an even bigger extent. I think Empoof was the best NK from a purely lolspk standpoint.