POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

[Montmorency]

Well the mod team kinda figured that since there isn't a whole lot of activity on the Org in general, no sense in shutting down the most active part of the forum for the whole week so we agreed on a partial truce for the weekend around Christmas. Good tidings and cheer and all that.


Im not a huge fan of Ossoff and tbh Im still not entirely sure how he got to be the Senate nominee after losing a special election in a district the Dems flipped a year later, but I guess here we are.

I could have sworn you were in favor of Ossoff himself in 2017 (not that he had much competition among the party bench), but maybe I'm misremembering. His face, like his politics, might resemble a cross between Beto O'Rourke and Pete Buttigieg, but here I'm gathering you dislike the rhetorical strategy of promising voters money??

Anyway, he got a majority of votes in a crowded primary and that makes him good. /snark More seriously, I get the feeling Warnock is affirmatively more popular among the base than Ossoff. Why is that?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

First he stands tough and claims he'll veto.

Then he waits for the first benefits to lapse.

THEN he signs the thing anyway.

And also calls for $2k having heard that number (probably on Limbaugh) somewhere.

And thus hands the would-be GA dem senators a talking point with which to hammer the GOP'ers for nothing.`


Petulant, disconnected, AND incompetent -- I am starting to think he WILL surpass Jemmy Buchannan on the list.

[Montmorency]

Petulant, disconnected, AND incompetent -- I am starting to think he WILL surpass Jemmy Buchannan on the list.

Starting to?

On the other hand, Trump still has approximately 463 hours in which to finally become President.

[Crandar]

Bezmenov was right, even conservatives are now gradually being indoctrinated to socialism and its various, nefarious offshoots.

[ReluctantSamurai]

One week to go before the Electoral College votes are certified by Congress, on 6 Jan. Three days before that, however, we get a preview of how much of a shit-show will occur on the sixth:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...n-trump-452081

The least-understood aspect of Congress’ electoral vote certification occurs days before the main event. On Jan. 3, the first day of the new congressional session, the House and Senate will adopt a set of rules that govern the Jan. 6 meeting.

The so-called “concurrent resolution” usually originates in the Senate, where the rules committee — chaired by Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo) — would issue the first version. In recent decades, even after fiercely contested elections like in 2000 and 2016, the rules have been adopted unanimously and without debate.

Those rules have been unaltered for decades, and they simply reaffirm that Congress will abide by the processes in the Constitution and in the Electoral Count Act. Those processes include a requirement that the vice president, in this case Mike Pence, will preside over the Jan. 6 session and that electoral votes are to be read aloud one state at a time, alphabetically.

So much for the rules, which has been discussed here for some time. What McConnell and Pelosi have planned to expedite the confirmation process should become apparent at this point:

Rather than take the extreme route of bypassing the Electoral Count Act altogether, constitutional scholars say lawmakers could use the opportunity to clarify and add onto existing processes in order to stave off uncertainty stoked by Trump’s hardline allies. That could include restricting Pence’s power to make sweeping procedural rulings or setting criteria that prevent him from introducing alternate slates of presidential electors in states won by Biden, a gambit some Trump allies have urged him to attempt.

The alternate slates of Trump electors carry no legal force. But the language of the Electoral Count Act indicates that Congress must consider any documents “purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes.” Multiple constitutional experts said in interviews that Congress could help define the boundaries of what are considered legitimate electoral votes — such as those endorsed by a governor, state legislature or other state authority — and prevent the Trump votes from being read into the joint session.

3 Jan will also provide a window into just how much support Trump will have 3 days later when Congress meets to certify the results:

Trump allies could also seek to make a stand on Jan. 3 by attempting to amend the rules in their favor or opposing any new constraints adopted in either chamber. Although those votes would likely fail, they would provide an early window into the level of support for any challenges that they intend to bring on Jan. 6 — and just how many Republicans are prepared to vote to affirm Biden’s victory as well.

The fly in the ointment:

The Twelfth Amendment requires that the vice president oversee the joint session of Congress and open each state’s certificate of electoral votes. The Electoral Count Act spells out his role further, requiring him to hand over the opened certificates to four “tellers” — two appointed by the House and two by the Senate — who then read them aloud to the chamber. Pence then asks for any objections.

But neither provision indicates what criteria Pence may use to decide whether he may introduce alternative slates of Trump electors. In fact, the rules require him to introduce any papers “purporting” to be elector slates — and it’s up to him to determine whether Trump’s electors in states won by Biden should be considered by Congress.

If Pence agrees with Gohmert’s theory, he can attempt to assert it when he presides over the Jan. 6 session. If he doesn’t, Trump and his allies are positioning it to be the ultimate betrayal of the president. And if Pence bows out altogether, the duty of presiding would fall to Senate President Pro Tem Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa). [see earlier post about Gohmert's lawsuit against Pence]

It's either going to be a spectacle, or much ado about nothing....

[Hooahguy]

Ossoff today: "Kelly Loeffler has been campaigning with a Klansman"

I guess I am a fan of Ossoff today. I like this gloves-off version of him.

[Montmorency]

Starting to?

On the other hand, Trump still has approximately 463 hours in which to finally become President.

I know I said approximately, but at the time of posting I somehow overlooked that there were two full days remaining in 2020. Happy New Year.



Holy shit, I saw an incredible thought experiment proposed regarding the unconscionable infinitude of the President's constitutional pardon power. The idea is, a President could issue an ultimatum to Congress that he will effectively legalize murdering them, Purge-style, in federal spaces, unless they initiate/complete a Constitutional amendment process to delimit the pardon power. Another illustration is the point that pres-elect Biden could, reasonably, bruit free pardons for anyone willing to eliminate Donald Trump or any of Biden's political enemies. Of course, broadly speaking the making such pronouncements or the attempt to follow up on them would ipso facto be activity subject to criminal (to say nothing of civil) penalties. But Donald Trump's administration has clearly established that the justice system doesn't give a crap about corrupt or otherwise criminal abuse of the pardon power, so...




Also, Rasmussen Polling appears to have formally declared fascist affiliation.

Come January 6th:

(Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything. - Stalin)

"Come January 6, 2021, Vice President Mike Pence will be presented with the sealed certificates containing the ballots of the presidential electors.

1/4

At that moment, the Presidency will be in his hands.

And there is nothing stopping Pence, under the (plenary and unappealable) authority vested in him as President of the Senate, from declining to open and count the certificates from the six disputed states.

If they are (as more than 70% of Republicans believe) certificates from non-electors appointed via voter fraud, why should he open & count them?"

If the votes of all 7 contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, Joe Biden will have 222.

3/4

If they are (as more than 70% of Republicans believe) certificates from non-electors appointed via voter fraud, why should he open & count them?"

If the votes of all 7 contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, Joe Biden will have 222.

4/4

Very cool sentiments for a polling firm to stake out.


From the pardons thread:

When Collins, from the Buffalo area, became the first member of Congress to endorse Trump in 2016, he declared: "Donald Trump is the individual as president that can lead this country and reclaim our great state and provide a bright future for our children."

Can't they help paraphrasing the 14 Words?

Fourteen Words, 14, or 14/88, is a reference to the 14-word slogan "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children",[1] followed by the less commonly used "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth." The 8s represent the eighth letter of the alphabet (H), and "HH" stands for "Heil Hitler." [2] The slogans were originally coined by American white supremacist David Lane,[3] a founding member of terrorist organization The Order,[4] and serve as a rallying cry for militant white nationalists across the globe.[5]

[a completely inoffensive name]

May God guide our history for the better in 2021.

https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/1342802590447398915

We too can change evil into good each day. Loving actions change history: even the ones that are small, hidden, everyday. For God guides history through the humble courage of those who pray, love and forgive.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Continuation of the Pence Saga:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...lawsuit-453207

Vice President Mike Pence has asked a federal judge to throw out a lawsuit brought against him by Republicans seeking to empower him to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.

But Pence, in a 14-page filing brought by Justice Department attorneys, said the suit shouldn’t be aimed at him, since he is who Gohmert is trying to empower. “A suit to establish that the Vice President has discretion over the count, filed against the Vice President, is a walking legal contradiction,” Pence’s brief said.

From the case filing:

Plaintiffs have presented this Court with an emergency motion raising a host of weighty legal issues about the manner in which the electoral votes for President are to be counted. But these plaintiffs’ suit is not a proper vehicle for addressing those issues because plaintiffs have sued the wrong defendant. The Vice President—the only defendant in this case—is ironically the very person whose power they seek to promote. The Senate and the House, not the Vice President, have legal interests that are sufficiently adverse to plaintiffs to ground a case or controversy under Article III. Defendant respectfully request denial of plaintiffs’ emergency motion because the relief that plaintiffs request does not properly lie against the Vice President.

These plaintiffs’ claims against the Vice President in his capacity as President of the Senate also fail to address the Constitution’s Speech and Debate Clause, which prevents the other Branches of Government from questioning Congress in connection with “legislative acts,” which have “consistently been defined as an act generally done in Congress in relation to the business before it.” United States v. Brewster, 408 U.S. 501, 512 (1972). See also supra n.1. Moreover, nothing in Ex Parte Young, 209 U.S. 123 (1908), or its progeny supports these particular plaintiffs’ novel suit to enjoin the Vice President in the exercise of his constitutional authority as President of the Senate. See Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Center, Inc., 575 U.S. 320, 327 (2015) (looking to history to understand the scope of equitable suits to enjoin executive action). To the extent the Court is inclined to address these and other issues, the House of Representatives has informed the Defendant that it intends to present this Court with a number of arguments in response to plaintiffs’ motion. In light of Congress’s comparative legal interests in the Electoral Count Act, Defendant respectfully defers to the Senate and the House of Representatives, as those bodies see fit, to present those arguments.

An amusing sidenote:

Ironically, Representative Gohmert’s position, if adopted by the Court, would actually deprive him of his opportunity as a Member of the House under the Electoral Count Act to raise objections to the counting of electoral votes, and then to debate and vote on them.

Pence probably has his bags packed for his "diplomatic trip" as the coming Trump twitter-storm against him on Jan 6 is going to be nuclear fallout....

Republicans suing Republicans......

[spmetla]

I'm glad that they overrode his veto today, should demonstrate to Trump that he really is a lame duck now. The Jan 6th confirmation of Biden should be the final nail in the coffin of his illegal hopes and dreams.

The following fortnight of whatever he does though will likely be some of the worst things a president can do, what new norms will he trample in that period will probably be worrisome. Wonder what beyond pardons for family and friends he'll do...

[Montmorency]

Interestingly, Murkowski and Manchin were responsible for putting clean energy funding priorities in the latest stimulus bill (more properly, the omnibus spending bill), which suggests Manchin won't be a particular obstacle to a Biden-esque climate plan should we ever regain a sniffable majority in the Senate (Manchin will never, for anything, support removing the filibuster if there are only 50 Dem votes in the Senate).

May God guide our history for the better in 2021.

https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/1342802590447398915

You're Catholic?

Continuation of the Pence Saga:

Defendant respectfully request denial of plaintiffs’ emergency motion because the relief that plaintiffs request does not properly lie against the Vice President.

The Pence filing is amusingly-trenchant, but in the end his staff might as well have saved their time; every last one of these Trump suits is organized around the principle of drawing headlines and building the narrative, not legal reasoning. They might as well be scrawled in crayon.

[Hooahguy]

I could have sworn you were in favor of Ossoff himself in 2017 (not that he had much competition among the party bench), but maybe I'm misremembering. His face, like his politics, might resemble a cross between Beto O'Rourke and Pete Buttigieg, but here I'm gathering you dislike the rhetorical strategy of promising voters money??

Anyway, he got a majority of votes in a crowded primary and that makes him good. /snark More seriously, I get the feeling Warnock is affirmatively more popular among the base than Ossoff. Why is that?

I dont remember that, I honestly dont even remember if I was even paying attention in the short primary for the GA-06 seat back in 2017 as I didn't live in the district. I was pro-Ossoff in comparison to his GOP opponent of course, but I was never really on his bandwagon. I was also going through a major breakup during that time so my memory might be hazy.

My biggest issue with him is the lack of experience to stand upon. Like what is he known for most? Losing the most expensive House race in US history. And he was a Congressional staffer for a few years. Rev. Warnock is the senior pastor of the Ebenezer Baptist Church which carries huge weight and prestige in the Black community in Georgia, and within Georgia in general. Yes I know the GOP have put up less qualified people but the Dems should strive to be better when it comes to the Senate. If Ossoff wins I think he does it on Rev. Warnock's coattails. Otherwise he will be known just as the guy who lost the most expensive House and Senate races in US history.

As for the rhetorical strategy, no issues with what he's doing.