Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Hollowkatt

i'd ask

but i know you won't tell

[Zack]

I would prefer we not kill Newcomb d1.

I find it sort of interesting Csargo has received fairly little heat while not doing much of anything.

Really wish Monty would show up and do anything at all.

Would like to see a bit more from Winston.

Vote: Ender i guess

[Winston Hughes]

Would like to see a bit more from Winston.

who do you want me to talk about?

[Zack]

who do you want me to talk about?

whatever you want

you being under the radar and careful not to say anything untoward reminds me more of how you wolf than how you town

[Winston Hughes]

whatever you want

you being under the radar and careful not to say anything untoward reminds me more of how you wolf than how you town

indeed

i know exactly how it looks

i'm not feeling the joy yet

and that is ++rand scum for me

[ladd]

vote:ender

maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol

dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips

sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong

newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo

[Sleep]

I would prefer we not kill Newcomb d1.

I find it sort of interesting Csargo has received fairly little heat while not doing much of anything.

Really wish Monty would show up and do anything at all.

Would like to see a bit more from Winston.

Vote: Ender i guess

im not really happy with this mentality or the direction the game seems to be going. admittedly i have a reflexive tendency to townread players i perceive as lhf which often leads me to blind spot them but i think ur puutting a burden of "doing things" on ppl who are maybe more relaxed/less tryhardy while giving a pass to someone who has, in actuality, done very little

i will write a little more on this in a bit

[ladd]

idr if i ever elaborated on hollowkat villaread but he seems like a classic read deacay vote. I don't really seen him coming into a game with this pl as a wolf and making posts like:

Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea

yeah no problem.

My OG vote on Katze was 100% a shitpost vote.
People started piling onto katze tho and that felt weird to me. Like if they're a wolf then it's great, but if they're town a runaway wagon on them to start the game seems like a good opportunity for a wolf or two to get on and try to hang there for a chop today.
That's the basis for the v read there, basically that too many people were like "hmm yes katze is a good vote at this stage of the game".
I subscribe to the theory that early game wagons have lasting impact on the rest of the game through a kind of communal thread memory and that an early game wagon like that on a villager is one way to put a potential strong village player into the POE to make them either post out of it or allow for "bad votes" later in the game by calling back to it.

and this was a very villagery thought and something I believe he believes

imo

[Winston Hughes]

but honestly i'm just not sure what to talk about

partly it's just rustiness, i think

but there's probably also just too much red meat already on the plate

in all of my games in recent years, i've felt like i needed to drive the conversation to some extent

this game's been generating it faster than i've been able to keep up

[ladd]

is it really that much of an issue? i signed up with a different username beause haha funny vote sleep meme and its a new site, i figured

if its a ~problem~ i dont mind saying it but i significantly prefer playing as an unknown because i feel like it forces people to engage more honestly with the words in my posts rather than filtering it through some lens based on a preconceived identity they have attached to me, if that makes sense


before i go into that, i want to ask u this:

u seem to be confident cape is an obvious villager, so much so that ur defending him by attacking me. but the most reasoning i can find for WHY u think that is this:


and this is super vague and generic and doesnt really tell me anything about his actual content or why u like it. zack has a post like #565 where, ok, i can see the reasoning there, im not sure i agree, but i respect the thoughts, where with u i cant really figure out the reasoning or why ur so determined.

1) not really, i just think its weird that you are the only alt and what is essentially an invitational playerlist where most people know each other or are metable

2) i am saying your push on cape is wolfy, cape is a thin villa lean for me. the 2 things can cohexist

[Dobby]

so it's mostly gut?

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

[Sleep]

vote:ender

maybe i randed wolf so much in these things that I forgot how to village lol

dunno game seems very hard to me now. I could see it going...a lot of different ways and am just down to get some flips

sleep will prob get villaread for his posts since i went to sleep but imo they are pretty bad. he really reminds me of myself when i have a wolfread as a wolf and i just keep forcing seeeing my wolfread's posts as wolfy instead of trying to see if i am possibly wrong

newcomb/hk are both bad wagons imo

hi, can u please respond to #582/#586? im just struggling to understand ur perspective here and would like some clarity

[Dobby]

idr if i ever elaborated on hollowkat villaread but he seems like a classic read deacay vote. I don't really seen him coming into a game with this pl as a wolf and making posts like:



its hard to believe that a wolf genuinely thoughts saying the red was a good idea



and this was a very villagery thought and something I believe he believes

imo

Qre u questioning my reads

[Dobby]

In how many hours does the day end?

[ladd]

test

[Winston Hughes]

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

okay, i'll get off my arse and look that up

[ladd]

site is going super slow for me, dunno if its a me problem tho. seems to be working now tho

i mean thats literally a single line, i could have gone at length into why i didnt like it but it would mostly boil down to "tone", i sensed the rest of the thread likely had no appetite for a prolonged back and forth, and i wanted the chance to focus my attention on other things and not have cape spend all his time defendin himself to me. im still actively engaged in trying to sort him/other ppl, im not sure where u get the impression thats the only thing im doing

i never said this

i addressed the other post already

if you want me to expand on something lmk, I know I am being lazy

[ladd]

In how many hours does the day end?

5 and 45 mins

[Zack]

im not really happy with this mentality or the direction the game seems to be going. admittedly i have a reflexive tendency to townread players i perceive as lhf which often leads me to blind spot them but i think ur puutting a burden of "doing things" on ppl who are maybe more relaxed/less tryhardy while giving a pass to someone who has, in actuality, done very little

i will write a little more on this in a bit

I disagree that newcomb has done very little

I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this

[Sleep]

2) i am saying your push on cape is wolfy, cape is a thin villa lean for me. the 2 things can cohexist

see i just dont believe that at all. uve not only gone out of ur way to defend him against sunbae but against me too, u seemingly didnt really raise isssue with or interact with the post at all when i made it, only to return a day later and declare me a wolf for it. u didnt really try to talk with me about it prior to this which makes me question whether u actually had interest in sorting me or persuading me that i am wrong on cape (and i will grant that u asked me a question about him that i have yet to answer). but to me it feels like ur attack is coming from an inordinate level of confidence that cape is a villager

[ladd]

lets let katze lead eod

[ladd]

see i just dont believe that at all. uve not only gone out of ur way to defend him against sunbae but against me too, u seemingly didnt really raise isssue with or interact with the post at all when i made it, only to return a day later and declare me a wolf for it. u didnt really try to talk with me about it prior to this which makes me question whether u actually had interest in sorting me or persuading me that i am wrong on cape (and i will grant that u asked me a question about him that i have yet to answer). but to me it feels like ur attack is coming from an inordinate level of confidence that cape is a villager

thats cause i started to get concerned right before i went to sleep yday when i saw your post dumping on cape asnwer (which was right before i went to sleep) and i went to re read your wall to which i quite frankly didnt pay a ton of attention to on my first read

i dont see why you struggle to see that I can find a push wolfy without having the pushed gui as lack clear

[Sleep]

I disagree that newcomb has done very little

I've played with Csargo, Monty, and Winston countless times. Csargo and Monty have done close to nothing, and while that's maybe not too out of character for Csargo on d1 he can do more, and Monty/Winston are almost always far more active and engaged than this

ok. i think sometimes in a game like this differing playstyles can kind of stifle people but i will respect ur meta on them. i had a segment in this in my reads list im working on but i wouldnt be shocked if theres a wolf in the null/less active players, i just dont like necessarily going for those as the day 1 elim because they tend to be lazy and =rand. they are the type of slots i wouldnt mind being exploded.

i still think newcomb has been p wolfy tho

[ladd]

If I end up going over, just know I'm confident in my towncore this game

Very confident

Least confident wolf read by a long shot is ladd.

Knowing how hit or miss I can be 2 wolves are in my light towns and if there's a wolf somewhere in my towncore, it's benneh

this gave me a laugh, i read the first post in amrock's voice

[hollowkatt]

Hi I am currently on page 17 and have read nothing since then AMA

[Sleep]

thats cause i started to get concerned right before i went to sleep yday when i saw your post dumping on cape asnwer (which was right before i went to sleep) and i went to re read your wall to which i quite frankly didnt pay a ton of attention to on my first read

i dont see why you struggle to see that I can find a push wolfy without having the pushed gui as lack clear

ig its because the idea that my push is wolf-motivated suggests that you find it to be in some way disagreeable which implies that i am pushing someone u believe to be a villager, where if there was some gray area i would expect u to maybe try to figure out my perspective more to see if i was a villager who was just misfiring on something rather than declaring me a wolf

[hollowkatt]

I guess I should explicitly make this a question, so what's up with including rask here?

Like, including rask in a list with everyone I buy. Forgetting to include rask when doing a stream of consciousness "state of the game" post I buy. This halfway thing where rask is included in a specific group of 3 along with 2 other players both of which have posted a moderate amount is... odd?

I can't reeeeeally fit this to an obvious wolf mindset thing, like... w/w with rask? Nah I feel like he'd be even more aware than Joe Villager that his partner was currently 0 posting. Knows rask is v and too lazy to check since already knew alignment? Doesn't really seem that likely.

Still though I kind of want to know what's up with this post since it's odd in a way that demands a reason, like there has to be a reason the thought went there to put that name with those two.

Kinda disagree with this because putting the zero poster in the same bucket as "I have no reads on these people" makes some amount of sense to me though I do generally separate out "no reads but have posted" vs "no reads and not posting" slots precisely for trying to avoid posts like yours being made.

I don't think it's a smoking gun for csargo but if he's addressed this somewhere I anticipate reading what his answer(s) were.

[hollowkatt]

i will win the lyrical battle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You ready? Let's go!
Yeah!
For those of you that wanna know what this situation is all about

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze

katze the Townie
Yeah!

She doesn't need maximum towncred
She just wants to be heard, just wants her post to be read
She feels so unlike everybody else, alone
Nobody believes his claim

In spite of the fact that some people still think that they know she is town
But fuck 'em, she knows the way, it?s not about winning
It's all about reality and showing she?s town

katze the Townie
Yeah!

Telling his truth
Who the hell is she, anyway? She never really talks much
katze the Townie

Never concerned with townreads, just fighting for life
Humbled through opportunities given despite the fact
Visor included katze in the set-up

They many misjudge her 'cause she might claim a role similar to one that'll flip
Put it together herself, now the picture connects

This is twenty percent bad luck, eighty percent the set-up
Be a hundred percent clear, 'cause katze is town
This dude is the telling his truth

This is ten percent bad luck, twenty percent the set-up
Fifteen percent benneh the Town Clown
Five percent Newcomb, fifty percent the willage
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name katze the Townie

She's not your everyday Townie
She knows how to work with what he's got, making her way to the top of the post count
She often gets a comment on his name, people keep asking her
"How can you exist"
No, she's living proof (Proof), got her rocking the booth
Dedicated to her role and giving it a hundred percent

Forget benneh, forget mechanics
Forget the design
Just pay attention to this rhyme

When katze flips Town, just say instead
Ridiculous, mechanics lost us the game again

this is completely within katzes wolf range and yet I want to town read it because I am lazy and it feels good to do so.

[Newcomb]

lets let katze lead eod

I'm surprisingly okay with this.

[Winston Hughes]

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

so #664 referring to #134

it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.

So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.